Infection Source and Protein Rest Questions

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by smm5548, Mar 21, 2012.

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  1. smm5548

    smm5548 Aspirant (230) Feb 23, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I recently tasted my latest batch and it too, along with my last 2 batches, is infected. However, I think I might have honed in on the source. Just before bottling, I was cleaning/sanitizing my racking cane and noticed a very small cluster of what appeared to be a dark, moldy sustance on the inside lip of the cane's rubber grommet. I wiped it off with my finger and the substance disappeared without even a trace on my finger tip. Could this have been a small patch of mold and source of my infection problems? I hope that I have found it and can finally get back to brewing some great beer. My findings, if indeed the source, were too late for my latest batch as it had already been siphoned with the cane twice before I noticed it.

    For a trial batch to ensure that I have eliminated my infection source, I plan to brew a half batch (2.5 gal) sort of pseudo lager with San Fran Lager yeast and using primarily German Pilsener malt. I usually partial mash but for this small batch I can do all grain with my setup and wanted to know if I should do a protein rest for the pilsener malt? Also, when making a yeast starter from the same German Pilsener malt, is it necessary to do a protein rest?

    Sorry for the long post and thank you for any insight.

    Seth
     
    #1 smm5548, Mar 21, 2012
  2. kjyost

    kjyost Initiate (0) May 4, 2008 Canada (MB)

    No need for a protein rest with fully modified malt, in fact it could negatively affect your head retention...
     
    #2 kjyost, Mar 21, 2012
  3. smm5548

    smm5548 Aspirant (230) Feb 23, 2010 Pennsylvania

    How can you be sure that the malt is fully modified? I will be ordering it from Norther Brewer and all that it says is that the malt is "suitable for single infusion, but many folks swear by the protein rest."
     
    #3 smm5548, Mar 22, 2012
  4. SenorHops

    SenorHops Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2010 Rhode Island

    What's leading you to believe these batches are infected? What are you picking up from them in terms of taste and aroma? Or is there something visual?

    Just wondering because I had a couple of batches that had a wine sourness and vinegary taste in smell so i was certain that they were infected but that flavor and aroma conditioned out of both batches after a couple of weeks leaving me baffled as to what it was because those aren't typical of just plain off flavors and usually pooint to infection.
     
    #4 SenorHops, Mar 22, 2012
  5. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    Are you saying you're making an all grain starter? Dude, you are hard core and I salute you. But I would also suggest you can get the same results with DME. With the starter, you're just growing cells, not making beer. With a pilsner you're definitelly going to want to be making a big starter, and then cold crashing so that you can decant the liquid. So I don't see any benefit of going to the trouble of doing a starter mash... let alone one with a protein rest.

    As for the main mash: I probably wouldn't bother this time, given the quasi-experimental nature of your mini-batch. Protein rests aren't "necessary" with well-modified malts, which includes virtually all the pils malt at Northern Brewer and similar sources. Some of us like to do them anyway, just out of sheer cussedness, and I usually like to do a protein rest and single decoction on pilsners, just because. For your purposes this time, I would suggest just doing a single infusion--why go to any extra trouble when you're not sure you haven't cleared the infection? Then, assuming things work out fine, you can hone your technique in subsequent batches. Good luck!
     
    #5 MLucky, Mar 22, 2012
  6. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    See if your supplier can give you the Kolbach index. Anyting in the 37 to 40 range is fully modified.
     
    #6 hopfenunmaltz, Mar 22, 2012
  7. smm5548

    smm5548 Aspirant (230) Feb 23, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I have posted a few threads about the off flavors I have been experiencing. Most have suggested that the rubbery/plastic like flavor and aroma along with a bit of sourness is most likely due to a bacterial infection and for now, I think it may have been coming from the rubber grommet of my racking cane.
     
    #7 smm5548, Mar 22, 2012
  8. SenorHops

    SenorHops Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2010 Rhode Island

    Did you let these condition for a couple extra weeks? Did the off flavors or aroma get worse or stay the same?
     
    #8 SenorHops, Mar 23, 2012
  9. smm5548

    smm5548 Aspirant (230) Feb 23, 2010 Pennsylvania

    The oatmeal stout I brewed has the worst of the off flavors. The last time I tried it was after about 2+ months in the bottle and it seemed to be a little worse than it had been in previous weeks. My most recent batch, an IPA, has already developed these same flavors and aromas as of the last time I tried it, about a week and a half after bottling.
     
    #9 smm5548, Mar 23, 2012
  10. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    Similar results here.

    Anybody have a good suggestion for cleaning the grommet, or really the whole racking cane (autosiphon in our case)? Ours is used for transferring to secondary, and then for bottling. That's the only use it gets. After one of these uses I rinse it thouoghly and then put it right back into the StarSan for a while before storing it.
    What else can we do?
     
    #10 jmw, Mar 23, 2012
  11. scray24

    scray24 Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2008 Colorado

    PBW or oxyclean would be a good way to go. Although you may consider boiling tha portion to kill any bugs that may have gotten into the rubber. Caution on the boiling, it may damage your racking cane. The PBW/oxyclean will clean up and external gunk but won't sanitize. You could also soak in some bleach afterward to try for a slightly stronger sanitizer.
     
    #11 scray24, Mar 23, 2012
  12. ACESFULL

    ACESFULL Initiate (0) Sep 13, 2011 Illinois

    For the protein rest question. As others have said the all/most have been fully modified so the rest isnt necessary. However I have heard (going to try on next batch) that protein rests are supposed to increase efficiency in the area of 5% and up to 20% now not sure on the high end of that but a 5% increase is well worth the trouble IMO.
     
    #12 ACESFULL, Mar 26, 2012
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