Introduction to German Beer

Uh, Dusseldorf and Cologne are on the phone for you...

(and Weihenstephaner's Weizen department is holding... )

 

I'm second guessing myself on this. A sticky note can't be edited without the help of a mod (I think), and since we all debate the correctness of info discovered from different sources, perhaps a thread that is exclusive to the date coding topic is the way to go (no discussion allowed off topic about beer quality, newly-canned beers, etc), and everyone would know the latest posts likely are the latest info, thus the most accurate. Rules for the thread would include that info pertaining to whatever brewery (any country), the brewery's name must be bolded and be the first word of a paragraph for easy seeking and viewing. Other rules can also be developed.

Sorry @BigIronH for interrupting your thread.

 

One notable difference between German Weissbier and American versions is that the former are almost always open-fermented. The same is also true of most German Lagers, other than those from large brewing concerns.

 

Ha ha! Oh I didn’t forget those guys. I just figured starting with Lager (as broad of a spectrum it may be) is a safe bet for the OP to get started.

 

Especially so after they break them into singles, the only things I buy there are known recent releases or wine. Their hit or miss on too many things to be a serious regular place., especially when Bestway is 8 minutes away and date conscious with far more choices. Still no date don’t buy.

 

No code needed for Paulaner Pils cans. Just the normal month/day/year born on and one year later best by printed on the bottom of the 500 ml can. I bought another four pack yesterday. Born September 18, 2020. A little old, sure. But in a can and cold and it will drink up just fine, as I mentioned previously in this thread.

 

Probably not a born-on date -- Paulaner isn't owned by A-B.

Even Spaten has a best-by date, maybe A-B dropped the "born-on" because they really couldn't pinpoint an actual birth date.

 

Many American breweries also tend use a generic American ale yeast that doesn’t produce the full bouquet of esters that German Weiß does. Some breweries have gotten better about calling beer with this yeast American Wheat Ale, and now many other breweries use the actual German yeast. Nonetheless, I think a good Weißbier requires immense expertise to make due to how temperamental the yeast can be, and American craft brewing can’t quite replicate it in most cases.

 

These have been around for years, I got fooled once in the mid-90s in Portland -- thought I was getting a Weizen and just got a (here it comes) hazy pale ale.

But I honestly don't think most breweries try to pass these off as Bavarian Weissbier. I think they just found a way to pass off unfiltered beer.

 

Ron, is open fermentation still 'popular' for brewing lagers in Germany? Is there a typical (rule of thumb) way to determine whether the German Lager was open fermented vs. closed fermented? Perhaps the size of the brewery (e.g., x hl brewhouse)?

Cheers!

@honkey

 

I just know from the breweries I've visited in Bavaria. Most were fairly small. Apart from Schneider, which is a decent size. And obviously top ferments.

 

Thanks for that input. I suspected that is was the small breweries that conducted open fermentation and you confirmed that for me.

Cheers!

 

That could only be Widmer Brothers! Not a bad beer, but definitely not a Weiß...

Regarding filtration: I think most small-scale craft breweries inevitably have to have most, if not all, their beer unfiltered. Filtration devices are just another piece of equipment and another step in the brewing process before packaging. Plus, "unfiltered" is a good marketing term: it implies better, fresher flavor, and perhaps even some health benefits from the vitamins in yeast.

Unfortunately, packaging unfiltered beer can be a bit messy, too. They have to dump and drain a lot of the yeast sludge when they start piping the finished beer from the fermentor, before it can get piped to packaging containers.

 

Can you please provide more details here?

I am not a commercial brewer but my understanding it that there are two ports on the bottom of the CCV tanks cone. The very bottom port is used to dump the yeast. The racking port is above the bottom port and this is what is used to transfer the beer to the package.

Cheers!

 

It wasn't back then. It was a fault in a beer, unless it was a Hefeweizen -- a tried and true style that was known for it's suspended yeast. Again, I think that's why brewers started calling these beers wheat beers, so they could say, "Yeah, it's unfiltered like those German beers."

Never mind, as you originally pointed out, it didn't use the same yeast and had nowhere near the same character -- in fact, that first one was pretty damned disappointing. And I don't recall if it was Widmer or not, I remember being at another brew-pub, but it may have been a guest tap.

 

At the brewery where I volunteered, we packaged an ESB and what I remember was that when right before we hooked the tube to the canning machine, we first had to dump a lot of excess yeast straight out of the tank and into the floor drain, I think through the port you mentioned. This brewer does not recycle yeast, but rather uses a fresh package of dry yeast every single time.

With that said, a lot of suspended yeast remained in both the canned and kegged product, sometimes in very large clumps. While harmless, it was somewhat unsightly.

 

Maybe there are better methods/techniques to conduct the yeast dump to mitigate this issue?

Perhaps some of the beer industry folks have insight here: @honkey @SierraTerence @erway @Tarheel4985 @jzainasheff

Cheers!

 

Yep

That beer actually uses a top fermenting yeast that originated from a Kolsch brewery. I use that yeast in my Kolsch and it really won't flocculate well, nor will it filter very well since the cells are so small.

Unfiltered beer should be able to achieve great clarity. In fact, we just did an unfiltered IPA with no clumps that went from grain to can in 10 days. Normally when I hear about clumps I assume the beer didn't get enough cold conditioning. If it's clumped up, it's aggregated but not settled. Most English yeast strains are pretty good flocculators and several of them don't even need finings to achieve great clarity quickly. Normally, if we are using brite tanks the way you described, we cold crash the beer in the fermenter, dump yeast the next day, add finings (if necessary), dump yeast again the next day, and transfer and add more finings if necessary. Normally though, one round of finings is plenty. We actually use unitanks and frequently don't fine our beers using the yeast strain that originated from Fuller's and we can have great clarity by the 8th or 9th day in the tank and we package directly from the fermenter.

All of this depends on having proper water chemistry (calcium is a co-factor for flocculation), pH, pitch rates, and yeast health though and a lot of brewers struggle in those areas... especially if using dry yeast.

 

So, there was no filtering process?

I've been in a lot of small breweries that still utilized a filter before kegging or bottling.

In fact, to what I mentioned above about hazy beer being a no-no at one time, Capital Brewing once filtered their Hefeweizen because the ownership didn't want to sell cloudy beer -- much to the brewmaster's chagrin.

I had the good fortune to be at the brewery the day they were transferring for packaging (probably 1989, if I remember right) and got to try the Weizen on both sides of the filter. I can equivocally say that the shareholders didn't know what they were doing -- that Weizen was delicious.

 

Weedy, is that Wyeast 2565 (or equivalent)?

My preferred yeast when brewing my Kolsch beers is Wyeast 2565 since it produces a subtle, but noticeable, white wine flavor that is reminiscent of a Pacific Northwest Sauvignon Blanc for my palate. I really enjoy this quality but Wyeast 2565 really does not want to drop out. In my homebrewery I have to lager several weeks to make this yeast drop out. But the resulting beer is quite tasty so it is worth it.

Cheers!

P.S. Have you ever found a Kolsch yeast that provides the white wine flavor mentioned above but isn't a pain as regards flocculation? I once tried WLP029 and that yeast did drop clear quickly but the flavor profile was different (e.g., lacked the white wine flavor I desire).