IPA course correction

Discussion in 'Pacific' started by BuckeyeOne, Aug 31, 2014.

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  1. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well, sure, now. But I'm talking about the Tanzanian craft beer boom of 1897.
     
  2. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    But, isn't it conceivable that while the Brits were battling Rommel, they left a few barrels of IPA laying about? And, that the Americans found them, took them ashore at Anzio, loaded them into planes, dropped them on the Jerry's, and thus made a new style: German-African India-type Enjoyable Yellow beer (Gaiety beer), the precursor to modern ISA's?
     
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  3. BuckeyeOne

    BuckeyeOne Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2008 Washington

    You're comparing the brewing of a sour with the brewing of an IPA? :astonished:

    Brewing a sour requires dealing with a bacteria plus in many cases fruit, barrel-aging, and the blending of different beers. So yeah, I guess I expect some variation with sours.

    IPAs on the other hand have malt, water, yeast, and hops (and with the new style of IPA that means lots and lots and lots and lots of hops) and that's it. I'm not expecting significant variation when it comes to IPAs. And I think this mad rush to get IPAs to market and continue to push the envelope (not really in experimentation, but rather simply adding more fucking hops and nothing else) has put quality in jeopardy. I'm tired of such wide variation batch to batch of some of these new IPAs and I'm definitely tired of IPAs with tons of floaties, cloudy/murky IPAs, etc.
     
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  4. Kurmaraja

    Kurmaraja Initiate (0) May 21, 2013 California
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    Well, keep in mind that while the mainland was German East Africa there was a strong British presence off the coast on Zanzibar and post WWI even the mainland became British. Rumor has it that the the historical dialogue on the shores of Tanganyika between Stanley and Livingstone went something like "You brought me an IPA I presume?" which later temperance movements white washed to "Dr Livingston I presume?"
     
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  5. Kurmaraja

    Kurmaraja Initiate (0) May 21, 2013 California
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    Let me play the "glass half full" role here. I presume many would agree that we're in something of a new golden age of brewing and that this is leading to a lot of experimentation and sometimes to fundamental shifts in the way things are done AND the way they're perceived. One shift in process and perception that we're talking about here is hops as an agricultural product. Now, I'm not saying that some people haven't for the past 10 or more years realized that, yeah, hops and grains grow somewhere ... but I'm saying that now many people are starting to realize that all these different varieties of hops grow here ... that they have seasonality, that new varieties are being created or exploited in new ways, etc. I haven't been into craft beer for long enough to know for sure, but I don't imagine that 10 years ago people were as hungry to know (or speculate) about which hops were used, how, when, where they come from, etc. You see this in the marketing and branding. And this is part of a larger trend that you can call "locavore" or "slow food" or in non-food areas "artisanal" or "hand crafted" or whatever. Go to a restaurant that favors local ingredients and you may see that they have a dish on the menu that includes fruit, or berries, or some sort of herb or lettuce ... and as the season changes or as the market offers up different varieties, that dish will subtly transform but it's "blueprint" or "soul" may remain the same. This, to me, is one of the inherent pleasures of this kind of food - the responsiveness to ingredients, the reflections of place, the surprising understanding of just how wildly different something as seemingly simple as lettuce can be. Where ten or fifteen years ago you'd go to a market and see one type of citrus or lettuce, now you see dozens. Farmers markets ramp this up.

    So, bringing it back to beer ... I don't know why people should not embrace this as well. Yes, it's a perception shift from "what I get in this bottle / can will always be identical" - which, oddly enough, is a key argument people make when talking about how skilled MBC brewers are - to "this is going to be variations on a theme that reflect the beautiful variety of an agricultural product." We go listen to live music because we want to hear the spontaneity you can't get from a recording. This is a "live performance" of beer. ;-) Both can coexist and it's productive for them to do so. I think of this variability as something inherent in craft versus mass production. Certainly, there is a difference between variability from sloppiness or lack of skill - if one leg of a chair is shorter than the others the woodworker can't get away with saying "I'm an ARTISAN - I think outside of the box of chair stability! But the the grain, the joints, the finish will have subtle diffferences from chair to chair and that's one part of what can make it special IMHO.
     
  6. ballardbeer

    ballardbeer Pundit (779) Nov 10, 2013 Oregon

    kurmaraja hit it on the head, so no need to repeat, but i do think of the two very similar. whenever i brew sours or heavy-hopped IPAs at home, it's less of meeting some pre-determined benchmark and more "let's see how this one turns out".
     
  7. MicroFanatic

    MicroFanatic Devotee (389) Mar 21, 2009 Washington

    I have enjoyed IPA's for many years and have typically favored the more tropical and juicy types. Lately, however, my shift has gone from this "typical" tropical type with orange, pineapple, grapefruit, mango etc. to the types that are more grassy and garlicky with weed aromatics. They are definitely harder to seek out but I absolutely prefer these types of IPAs to the fruity ones. The IPA has begun to taste very generic in IMO and I have lost some of the attraction for sure. Of course there are standouts to this exception.
     
  8. TheeWalrusHunter

    TheeWalrusHunter Initiate (0) Aug 23, 2013 Oregon

    I'm jiving with what has been said. Mosaic/Ctira/Simcoe forward IPAs are becoming a dime a dozen. I was at Baerlic the other day and they had a more piney/floral IPA and I found it extremely refreshing.

    For me I think I prefer a more piney & earthy IPA.

    But I definitely prefer a more tropical/stonefruit & dank DIPA.
     
  9. PrinceCaspian72

    PrinceCaspian72 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2011 Oregon

    I've drank more 3-ways in the past month than I have any other beer all year long. Fantastic IPA! Drink what you like!
     
  10. jamdugan

    jamdugan Zealot (524) Mar 30, 2006 Oregon
    Trader

    The consumer is leading the movement. Modern IPA's are a fascinating styles of beer. They're possibly the most dynamic category of beer that exists today. This is because the hops are changing more then any other ingredient in beer. Malt does not change much, water can be tweaked, and yeast is usually clean. Much like cannabis, hops have a very devoted breeding program, which leads to new varieties each year, often times showcased thru the India Pale Ale. The modern day hop-head is looking for a beer with a firm bitterness, but could care less how many IBU's are listed on the bottle. It's more about the hop flavor and aroma. Much like a good bag of weed, the best examples stink up a room when opened. Today's IPA is golden in color, often times glowing. It's dry, balanced, fruity, dank and juicy without being bitter. As a brewer and hop-head, I love where hop breeding is going. 3-Way IPA is a fantastic example of a modern day IPA. It's the equivalent of a West Coast Heady Topper. A perfect blend of Chinook, Mosaic, and Citra. 2014 3-Way was probably the best selling IPA in Oregon history. If you don't agree, just talk to a bottle shop owner.
     
  11. kscaldef

    kscaldef Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon

    I don't care for weed, but otherwise I agree with ^^^. I'm so glad to be past the IBU wars and on to IPAs that actually taste good and don't kill your palate after half a pint and leave you with a fuzzy mouth the next day. When I homebrew, my IPA is below 1 IBU per gravity unit, but I dry-hop the shit out of it, because I love those flavors and aromas, but don't need my tongue to bleed from bitterness.

    (But, yeah, drink what you like. I'm not going to argue with you about your personal preferences.)
     
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  12. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    I've never been a huge hop-head, so keep that in mind. I find IPA's to be the least fascinating of styles. See my "burrito theory" mentioned above, and I don't think there's much difference between Cholula, Taptio, and the half-dozen bottles on the shelf of the taco truck. It's still just peppers and vinegar. Sure, some hops are more, or less, fruity, bitter, floral, whatever than others, and someone who likes floral may not like pine, but hops just aren't that interesting to me.

    To me, I find the interaction of malt and yeast to be the most interesting thing about beer. There are an infinite number of combinations that can be used. Hops are only seasoning, they are not a required ingredient.
     
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  13. Aleforme

    Aleforme Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 Washington

    I can understand both side of this argument. But, I think of the every changing and evolving IPA recipes are a great thing. I am definitely fine tuning my preferences and I am having a lot of fun doing it. Even with the recent explosion of new IPA recipes that push or cross the boundries of a typical IPA, there are still a lot of very solid well balanced IPAs out there that are expertly crafted and extremely consistent. Workhorse, Lucille & Interurban come to mind right a way. But there are many others. Personally, I think Bale Breaker's Top Cutter and Field 41 are pretty standard and consistent IPAs. Never notice any variance.They are both outstanding and among the best IPAs out there but nothing ground breaking in terms of specials hops or crazy over the top flavors. That's saying a lot. I would also add Reuben's various IPAs to the list of being able to produced some amazing well balanced IPAs that are very consistent. There Rye IPAs are really amazing and really drinkable.

    In the end, I'm probably a lot like Buckeyeone. I like a good well crafted and balanced IPA. While I do enjoy trying all the new receipes coming out, I still always go back to some of the proven standards mentioned above. I simply don't need to by punched in the mouth with crazy IBUs or over the top intense flavors on a consistent basis.
     
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  14. dirtylou

    dirtylou Grand Pooh-Bah (3,352) May 12, 2005 Oklahoma
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Proper seasoning is paramount in the culinary world. Without it, the best ingredients add up to very little.
     
  15. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think I could basically live on just those five beers to get my hops fix. Along with the occasional 3-Way, if that were an option anymore.
     
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  16. jamdugan

    jamdugan Zealot (524) Mar 30, 2006 Oregon
    Trader

    Wow, really? Hops are much more then seasoning. They create bitterness to balance out the sweet barley flavors. The U.S. has never had purity laws like Reinheitsgebot, so hops are not required, but they are an essential ingredient in beer. (with the exception of gruit) If you took hops out of your favorite beer, you would have a very different beer.
     
  17. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If you have 2 chunks of beef, and put salt, pepper, and garlic on one, but not the other, you still have 2 beef roasts. Admittedly, the unseasoned one won't be as tasty, but it's still roast beef. Malted grain, water, and yeast are all that is necessary to make beer, although hops do make it more intriguing. As I said above, for me, the yeast adds so many other flavors and aspects that I find interesting, than the hops do.
     
  18. BuckeyeOne

    BuckeyeOne Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2008 Washington

    It was Field 41 frankly that lead to my OP. I've been drinking the shit out of this beer all summer, including several Mariners games. The last couple of batches have had tons of floaties, which I don't believe earlier batches had. The flavor and aroma profile I agree has remained consistent. But there has been variance in batches. Has no one else noticed?
     
  19. Aleforme

    Aleforme Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2008 Washington

    That is odd. I've also burned through a lot of Field 41 over the summer and have yet see to any significant floaties. Maybe a couple tiny ones here and there but nothing you wouldn't find in any high qaulity IPA. I wonder if something happend to that particular shipment, 6 pack, can, etc?

    Just for comparison, I opened my last 3-Way this last weekend and it was full of big floaties. Big stick to your teeth type stuff. The other 3 cans in the 4 pack were nothing like this. I muscled through it though. Tasted and aroma were excellent.
     
  20. distantmantra

    distantmantra Pooh-Bah (2,954) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Field 41 is probably my favorite beer ever so I drink tons of it, but I've been pretty much drinking it straight from the can, so I haven't noticed floaties.
     
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