IPA/DIPA questions

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Swim424, May 7, 2012.

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  1. Swim424

    Swim424 Pundit (881) Apr 29, 2011 Florida

    So I'm working on making a IPA and DIPA. I want them to have the same ingredients but obviously the DIPA be more intense. They will both be extract beers. I am looking for suggestions on how to do this though. Like how much more malt, and hops to turn an IPA into a DIPA. Any suggestions are welcome. I am open to trying lots of things.
     
  2. cmmcdonn

    cmmcdonn Initiate (0) Jun 21, 2009 Virginia

    If you have a recipe for one, calculate it into percentages (ie 85% dme, 10% crystal, 5% carapills). Then you can add/subtract to get the abv you want for the other beer. As for the hops, just look at the BJCP style guidelines to get a rough estimate of where you want to be. If it were me, only the bittering addition would be affected because I use a ton of late addition hops regardless of whether its an ipa or dipa.
     
  3. Swim424

    Swim424 Pundit (881) Apr 29, 2011 Florida

    Alright. I'll try that. Thanks.
     
  4. thamajam

    thamajam Aspirant (267) Apr 2, 2010 Wisconsin

    I also think its common practice to add some sort of simple sugar to DIPAs in place of some of the malt sugar to keep it fairly dry. Obviously you'll be using some more malt to get the gravity up but you don't want it to finish sweet, it should finish in the 1.011-1.015 range. So adding some corn sugar or honey to the recipe (add it at flame out) for your DIPA in place of some of the malt sugar will be beneficial. 5-10% of the recipe should do it.
     
  5. Swim424

    Swim424 Pundit (881) Apr 29, 2011 Florida

    Have you tried this yourself? I'll look into it definitely. Were doing it tomorrow and still changing up the recipes a bit. The DIPA is looking to more Imperialish at this point, which is fine, love both of them.
     
  6. thamajam

    thamajam Aspirant (267) Apr 2, 2010 Wisconsin

    Yep, we just brewed a DIPA Saturday actually and added about 1.5lbs of honey at flame out (the end result was OG 1081 wort). This adds a little bit of end flavor to the beer (floral) but most of that sugar ferments out. If you're worried about affecting flavor and just want to showcase the hops, go with corn sugar...but don't overdo it as you'll end up with some "cidery" notes. I think about 1lb of corn sugar is enough for most recipes. Here is another thread that touches on this topic http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/corn-sugar-in-double-ipa.12736/
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Double IPA = Imperial IPA
     
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  8. Swim424

    Swim424 Pundit (881) Apr 29, 2011 Florida

    yeah. I meant it's Going to be pretty dark color.
     
  9. thamajam

    thamajam Aspirant (267) Apr 2, 2010 Wisconsin

    So more of a Black Double IPA? That would be interesting actually...

    Good luck!
     
  10. dpjosuns

    dpjosuns Initiate (0) Dec 8, 2009 Illinois

    Lets be honest, there are a bunch of ways of accomplishing what you're trying to do here. If you're just looking to up the %ages of your IPA, then talk to your shop to determine how specifically to do it. If you're looking to change the recipe, that's another story.

    The corn sugar idea works great, especially if you're looking to dry it out, but ditto on doing it a little bit at at time- if you do too much, it can turn out weird, so just be careful. 1% to start should work fine for ya.
     
  11. kjyost

    kjyost Initiate (0) May 4, 2008 Canada (MB)

    Agreed but my pro tip of the day: Use table sugar. Cheaper and will not give you off flavours.
     
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  12. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Will you be using dark extracts? Pale ME and sugar shouldn't yield a dark beer even with an amount of crystal, but you said all extract.

    85-90% extract and 15-10% table sugar to the desired OG of an IPA and DIPA and a highly attenuating yeast. I agree it needs to get below 1.011 for me personally. I normally don't recommend specific hop schedules. There are many recipes for hop schedules online.

    This is Jamil's Pliny clone for the DIPA.
    http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/Mike_McDole_-_Pliny_The_Elder_NB_Kicker.html
     
  13. thamajam

    thamajam Aspirant (267) Apr 2, 2010 Wisconsin

    Corn sugar is pretty cheap by the pound and it doesn't leave off flavors unless you use too much of it as a percentage of your grist. Basically, both work just fine in limited quantities and impart the same flavors if you put too much of it in your wort.
     
  14. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Have you experienced that first hand? What I have read was that "cidery" was a result of acetaldehyde, which some yeast produce more of than others. But it normally is a result of a hotter than ideal fermentation or stressed yeast, like the kind that are glued to the top of stale extract. I am drinking a saison currently with 20% table sugar and no "cidery" notes.

    I'm not trying to be contrarian, just asking.
     
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  15. thamajam

    thamajam Aspirant (267) Apr 2, 2010 Wisconsin

    I've not experienced it with table sugar (sucrose) but I generally don't use sucrose outside of stuff like Belgians in the form of candi sugar. Mostly just read about it. Corn sugar cideryness is more well understood and John Palmer touches on it in How to Brew. He also mentions cane sugar which can be table sugar.

    http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

    I think there is some debate here on how much is too much. Glad to hear your 20% Saison has no ill effects though, I definitely want to experiment with these sugars more.
     
  16. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Ok. If you boil corn sugar or cane sugar though, don't you get glucose either way? How would the yeast know the difference? I checked out your link, and while I respect John Palmer, I couldn't find any citations for his information. Couldn't he just be passing on what he would consider common knowledge that isnt so?

    I found as many posts to the contrary as those that support the idea. I guess it's good to know to be aware of the possibility.

    Thanks for the info.
     
  17. thamajam

    thamajam Aspirant (267) Apr 2, 2010 Wisconsin

    Yea you do get glucose either way but as I understand it table sugar (sucrose) needs to be broken down into glucose (+fructose) before the yeast can consume it. Since corn sugar is dextrose (aka glucose) it doesn't have that extra step and therefore ferments out faster than table sugar.
     
  18. Swim424

    Swim424 Pundit (881) Apr 29, 2011 Florida

    Were using liquid amber extract for the most part. My buddy was dying to try the crystal 80 for somereason so where steeping a bit of that. But the double we are using two pounds of it, which is going to darken up the beer quite a bit.
    Were using warrior hops to get the IBU up. Over 70 for the ipa and over 120 for the double, and a few different hops in the last ten minutes to get the ibu right where we want and, hopefully make it smell great.
    We may use a bit of table sugar in the double, going to figure that out in a few minutes before we go buy everything and finalize the recipe.
     
  19. SenorHops

    SenorHops Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2010 Rhode Island

    2 lbs. of Crystal 80? That's for a 5 gallon batch? That beer is going to be VERY sweet. You're also using amber malt which will make for a sweeter beer. Personally, I'd rethink that. I think 3/4 lb of the crystal 80 would be more than enough.
     
  20. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    No sugar will impart off flavors unless the fermentation temperature is too high. Yeast are specifically set up to ferment glucose/fructose/sucrose/etc, the culprit in cidery flavors is hot pitch temps, hot ferm temps, and a very young beer (acetaldehyde) although the last one isnt as problematic as the first two
     
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