IPA/DIPA questions

In your link the one thing Palmer doesnt describe is why he says sucrose may contribute off flavors, it isnt because the yeast need to break it down, instead its almost exclusively from the temperature of the beer fermenting too hot due to the simple sugars that yeast eat very fast. If you fermented a beer with 30% sucrose, but controlled the temp so it never got above say 60F you wouldnt have any off or hot flavors

 

I concur. Your recipe seems to be shooting for something more along the lines of an imperial amber or something, which if that's what you're shooting for is fine. Point being, this wont end up being what you would consider a DIPA when you think of that style. And I'm also under the general impression that you should keep crystal to 20% or under of your total grist, though I'm not quite sure how that would factor out in an extract/steep batch. You really shouldn't need that much crystal. If you're looking for color, consider adding some kilned malt or something like debittered carafa II (a little goes a long way).

 

Interesting, thanks for the info!

 

I agree, and back in the day 20+ years ago the yeast quality was suspect. Weak yeast has been blamed for some of the old wives tales about using sugar.

Whenever I do a Tripel, it has 20% table sugar, no cider flavors. I do have a big starter of 3787 that is ready to go.

 

“The IBU of the double is over 120.” As a FYI, your hop estimator may ‘indicate’ that you will obtain 120 IBUs but you really won’t. It will be much less than 120 IBUs.

Cheers!

 

The formulae break down at those levels. 100-110 is the practical achievable maximum, and you need a ridiculous calculated IBU level to even get that high. My guess for an 'over 120' calculated IBUs would be probably 70-80 actual IBUs.

 

My question here is - Do breweries get their beers tested for actual IBUs or do they print what will come out of a calculation, I assume the former but really have no clue. I know the IBU calcs are very inconsistent especially when dealing with higher numbers (90+) but making comparisons is much easier if both the homebrewer and the professional brewer at least use the same scale (I know homebrewers 99% of the time will not get their beer tested for actualy IBUs).

I find the only way for me to get the bitter edge that I like in my APA/IPA/DIPA is to bitter with at least 1:1 bu:gu for my bittering addition and ignore the ibu contributions of the rest - I generally hop burst from 20 down to FO. I feel that late additions dont add any appreciable bitterness, just the good flavor characteristics. Everyone's tastes are different but I love having an intense bitter followed by the juicy goodness of hop bursting.

 

It is not a factor of amount of hops or alpha acid directly. It is about solubility of a alpha acids. You can use 3oz. of magnum at 60 and get a theoretical value of 150 IBUs with a real bitterness of around 80 IBUs. Or you can use 3 pounds of magnum and get a theoretical value of 2000 IBUs with a realalistic bitterness of around 80 IBUs. Only so much alpha acids will go into solution and almost always less makes it into the final beer.

2 pounds of C80 and dark ME is going to be cloying and will have a high final gravity. It will probably be too sweet to enjoy.

 

I don't know any statistics, but there are a lot of craft breweries that do not have their IBU levels analyzed. This would include the ones claiming IBUs greater than 110. Some certainly do though. For those that don't, I would imagine it's because it's an unnecessary cost, and when you're making big DIPAs and the like, it's better for marketing to put a high (but unconfirmed) number on the label.

 

ala Mikkeller 1000ibu!

 

It would be nice to know which calc was used for those that do not get them tested. It would make it easier for our comparison purposes. At that point, the number would not matter just the comparison between the two bitterness levels, though this would more than likely mainly apply to clone recipes as there are a ton of factors affecting perceived bitterness.

 

If you're referring to IBUs, what we're trying to tell you is that there is no accurate formula (Beersmith or otherwise... BTW Beersmith didn't invent the formulae it uses) for IBUs in the upper range, and that 120 is impossible, regardless of the formula.

 

Bigger ones can afford the lab equipment, the space, and the lab tech to run all of the tests that a brewery can run for QA work. Smaller ones not so much. Small ones have to send the beer out for lab tests, which is added cost for the tests and shipping.

You can be assured that Sierra Nevada is correct when they say Bigfoot is 90 IBUs it is 90 IBU with in the test accuracy, as they have a lab. Your corner nano will be using one of the programs out there.

 

If it's a Double IPA style you're shooting for, you really want the hops to plow through the malt. The beer should be quite dry and not sweet. I generally use 3/4 lb of crystal in a 5.5 gallon batch. If I want more color, I'll add an ounce or two of dehusked carafa. My DIPA recipes on the calculator come out to 170-200 IBU's and their bitterness and flavor are on par with some of the top commercial brews. You're certainly welcome to experiment and do whatever you want with your beer, but if it's a DIPA you're shooting for, you'd be wise to take some of the people's advice here. Whatever you decide, I hope you find your beer enjoyable.

 

“If it's a Double IPA style you're shooting for, you really want the hops to plow through the malt. The beer should be quite dry and not sweet.” Well you certainly are describing the type of Double IPA beers that I prefer. It has been my experience that a large number (a majority?) of commercial DIPAs are sweet. I often find DIPA beers to be too cloying so I personally only order certain DIPA beers: for example I do not find Pliny the Elder or Heady Topper to be too cloyingly sweet.

An example of a DIPA that I personally find to be too sweet is Founders Devil Dancer but I could list a whole lot of other DIPA’s as examples of being too sweet.

So, to the OP: you need to decide what ‘type’ of DIPA you want. Either a hop forward DIPA with just some malt backbone to provide a bit of balance or a Devil Dancer type DIPA which has a lot of malty and sweet flavor.

Cheers!