IPA Freshness Hype

I think it is entirely reasonable to listen to the brewers who brew the beer.

 

I thought Hop Stoopid wasn't very good (before I knew how to check the date), then I had a reasonably (1month old) fresh one and it was good. Turns out I likely had a couple old stale bombers. The same bottle shop had Double Jack bottled in July 2011 and Ruination from February 2012. Bastards!

 

No, it's not. It's scientific that hops fade. Period.

The only people who make it a "third rail" are the ignorant ones who continue to claim it's not an issue. The people who continue to claim that a 6-moth-old IPA is indistinguishable from a fresh one.

And your observation means absolutely nothing, as you can only claim to speak for yourself and those you have "observed". Which probably amounts to 2 or 3 people.

We are being reasonable. We want fresh, bottle-dated IPAs.

And, there's no real debate. Just a few people who, for some obtuse reason, continue to challenge science, common sense, and the knowledge of many, many brewers.

 

Just to be clear- if one is saying "I like old IPAs, and I PERSONALLY don't care if they are fresh"... fine, more power to you.

But using your own personal preference for stale IPAs to project "IPA freshness doesn't matter"...

Good luck with that.

 

You don't even need to sip, just smell. Take four sniffs of each one. If it is a dry hopped beer, the fresher one will have more aroma. No BJCP needed. The folks, like me, arguing they can tell the difference are saying they can because they like late addition hopped beers. Most seasoned IPA enjoyers find they like the ones that are heavily late hopped, that adds so much to the beer. Just look at the most highly rated ones to see this is true.

I personally doubt I could tell the difference blind between a fresh Ruination and a 6 month old.

I would bet that you, whoever you are reading this, could tell the difference between a two week old Flower Power and a three month old Flower Power, and you would not even need to take a sip to do it.

My final words on subject.

 

upset?

 

I think I'm gonna do the same. I'm more in the camp of not stressing about being "ultra fresh!", but I've had a 6 month old Pliny and it wasn't good.

 

?

 

There's definitely a hype and sales part of the freshness issue. There is absolutely a difference because hops fade, like many other flavor and aroma components of beer. That doesn't mean a four month old hoppy beer can't still be good but it's not going to taste like one four months old. Whether an individual can pick out the difference every time or any time is a matter of preferences and palate.

One thing that will make a difference in how hops fade is the condition the beer is kept between packaging and consumption. If the beer sits in cellar temperatures (or lower) the entire path then a four month old IPA could easily drink like a month old IPA. OTOH an IPA sitting on a shelf for four months is going to have a lot more fade than a fresh beer or one cold stored. So when you talk about whether there is a flavor or aroma difference over time one thing you have to factor in is the quality of storage between packaging and consumption.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...I35S8ITaTMj-iybAnp1xb-w&bvm=bv.46340616,d.dmQ

Our overwhelming result is that consumers cannot accurately tell the differences between brands nor make consistent preference choices when actual differences in the product are small, as in the case of cola. Second, in spite of this lack of discrimination ability and preference consistency, consumers have a very high level of confidence in the evaluations and judgments that they make about product experience. This result is robust over a wide variety of consumers regardless of whether they profess to be brand loyal or not and the amount of the product category they consume. The result is also robust over replication in two different countries, U.S. and Taiwan.
It would appear that for some product categories, a consumer’s experience of a product is determined not so much by the objective reality of that experience but rather by the psychological reality. Many earlier studies have shown that when branding is introduced into the total experience, the brand is a powerful determinant of the psychological component of the experience. The study reported here indicates that even when no brand information coupled with the product experience, consumers will generate their own cues to guide their experience.

 

1. A lot of people seem pretty positive as to what would happen IF they did a truly blind test, who haven't done one. It is not a truly blind test to open two bottles and look at the dates while sniffing and drinking them. (sorry if this is so obvious it didn't require pointing out.)

2. Cave Dave makes an excellent, indeed uncontrovertible, point w/r/t the sniff test on two differently-aged Ruinations vs two differently-aged Flower Powers. Or other beers assignable, if you will, to the "Ruination column" or the "Flower Power column".

3. I don't know where the fall-off point is on Sucks but I know, for me, it's past the 2 to 2.5 month line. Repeat, FOR ME. Someday perhaps I'll have a four month old one, or even a six month old one, but they don't last that long in a) this market or b) my fridge. I think the last ones we had in Denver were from the 061 or March 2 bottling but they were all gone by the end of April or first day or two of May.

 

Yes but it in this case it was literally to keep the beer from spoiling. No one is debating that a 4 week old heady topper Is spoiled or otherwise bad for you. Only that the hops have faded so much that the beer has indeed been rendered unpalatable.

 

If this is what you are using to make your point that the average BA cannot tell the difference between the same IPA, when one is 3 weeks old and one is 3 months old, then you've lit upon some research that doesn't actually make your point. I think this thread has at least found consensus on the fact that hop aroma and flavor degrades over time. What is in dispute is whether or not an average BA can discern the degradation.

Using the research statement above, I would conclude that the only similarity between cola and craft beer is that they are both carbonated beverages. Beyond that, there is no comparison. I would argue that the actual differences between a 3 week old, dry hopped, late addition IPA (like Union Jack) and a 3 month old Union Jack is large due to the hop degradation and, thus, consumers can tell the difference.

In other words, comparing Pepsi, Coke, etc. is comparing brands whose "actual differences...are small." I would argue that the "actual differences" in fresh and old IPAs is not small and that these differences are discernible by the average BA IPA drinker.

You made a good effort and I appreciate the citation of actual research, but IMHO you came up short.

 

i'm not the OP

nor do i have a dog in the fight. that said, i don't think a scientific study of fresh vs "aged" IPAs has been conducted at the University level so, unfortunately, there won't be an apples:apples study out there to quote.

this is merely an example of scientific opinion (by Univ. research) that people over-rate their ability to discern difference blindly.

which is one of the points i read earlier.

take it or leave it. no matter to me.

 

I know you're not the OP. What was your reason for posting the research?

 

So there are some who notice the taste difference between fresh and old IPAs and some who do not. Of those who do, some conclude that that difference is significant while others find the difference inconsequential to their overall enjoyment. Amazing.

 

i find that when dicks are being wagged and everyone is bragging up their own opinion it sometimes helps to inject a little actual factual research done by a 3rd party. (not someone bragging about their super-taster beer tasting group) a little unbiased information for those who want to read up more on the topic (or related information) rather than reading more "I'M RIGHT! YOU'RE WRONG!" blather.

 

maybe you didn't get the memo. post 9/11 you're either with us or you're against us, fella.

no more fence sitting

 

This is post 200 on this thread. It is a little interesting that no mention has been made of a blind triangle taste test.