IPA Freshness Hype

Some people (hi) like them raw with fresh citrusy/tropical hop flavor, some prefer them to have a more mellow, rounded with generally fruity character - so what?

 

I read the first page of replies, and could not read anymore, given the content I read, I think my reply is prolly useful info from detailed homebrew experience....

I have experience with verticals of 3 hoppy homebrew recipes at different ages. I will describe my experiences below, hope this helps... This may touch on the bitter/flavor/aroma/recipe comments with some useful first person full process experience. I have brewed these recipes enough to vouch for consistent results. It's a long rant, but covers the topic well....

"3CPA", my standard IPA recipe.
**************************
Usually mostly two row base malt, ~7.3%. Usually a low finishing gravity (1.008) which accents hop flavor IMHO, and lives little to no malt flavor as a hop forward flavor brew. ~50ibus, 40+ibus are from later addition hops (15' or less). Usually dry hopped with 2 oz hops. This large amount of later addition of hops contribute much more bold citrus hop flavors and aroma, and much less "bitterness" than you would expect. Recipe is comprised of Centinnial, Cascade, Citra. I have had several verticals of the same recipe, with same lot of hops. Similiar to a Bells Two Hearted with less sweetness and a bit lighter in color, and a bit more citrus hop flavors & aromas. Most anyone who comes to my house will drink this brew, even folks that avoid IPAs, and most Macro dinkers also.
RESULTS
@ 2 weeks - from keg; Bold citrus hop flavor with very apparent citrus aromas. 2 weeks is about the prime IMHO.
@ 4 weeks - from keg; Still pretty close to the same brew as 2 weeks, difference is subtle if any.
@ 3 months bottled, compared to a fresh keg batch; Noticeably less aroma, subtle but a tad less citrus flavor, maybe a bit more bitter due to less hop citrus flavor.
@ 6 months bottled, compared to a fresh keg batch; Little to no aroma comparitively. Noticeably less citrus hop flavor, but still evident. Bitterness has faded a tad as compared to 3 months.
@ 12 months bottled, compared to a fresh keg batch; No aroma present comparitively. Little to any true citrus hop flavor. Bitterness noticebaly as compared to 6 months. This brew is much more "balanced" now, meaning more mellow bitterness, some malt flavor coming through, approaching a tad bit of sweetness sneaking through.

"Dark Helmet", this is a boldly bittered black IPA version with dark speciality malt additions.
The joke is it's a "Hoppy Schwartzbier, with a ludicrous amount of hops, our schwartz is bigger than yours"
*****************************
This is a big dark beer, ~9%, higher finishing gravity ~1.018, meaning more body and malt flavors.
80+ ibus, most all added early in the boil, with little to no hop flavor or aroma. This one is about as bitter as a beer can get, mostly all from the hops. Recipe includes de-bittered carafa III for mild roast note and caramel 90L for a tad of sweetness. No late addition hops, so hops really only provide bitterness, no hop flavor or aroma.
RESULTS
@ 2 weeks - from keg; Bold bitterness distinctly from the hops. As bitter as it gets. Some mild sweetness and a tad or roast note from the dark malts.
@ 4 weeks - from keg; same as 2 weeks.
@ 3 months in bottle, compared from memory; I'm banking this beer has not changed at all.
@ 12 motnhs in bottle,compared from memory; Maybe a tad less bold on the bitterness, a tad more sweetness, but still a monster on bitterness for anyone who avoids "bitter beers".

"XXX IWA", an annual Wheat Wine recipe, brewed with a healthy dose of Caramel Malt.
*********
This is a big beer, 10%, with a relatively low final gravity for it's size (1.014). Has a healthy dose of Caramel Malt about 12%, think somthing like a "American Amber" range in sweetness. This beer is relatively bitter @ about 50 ibus.
RESULTS
I brew this every year.
@ 1 month bottled;
I taste one usually about a month after from a keg and bottle a bulk amount. The bitterness comes out early approaching IPA range (thinksomewhere between SNPA & SN Torpeda). The alcohol is a bit hot when tasted, and this is a beer that is enjoyed as small pours early in it's age. It doesnt seem to change for the next 3 months from what I can tell. This beer is not drinkable to most anyone who dislikes any bitter beers. Macro drinkers avoid it at all costs.
@ 12 months bottled;
An entriely different beer. Bitterness mellows a good bit, and sweetness from the malt really comes out with age. This beer drinks more like a true barleywine or balanced "big" beer. It's still a sipper pour for most folks. Most anyone likes it, even the Macro drinkin' crowd. Some have even been known to power through 3+ pints.


Ok, thats a lot of info... but felt it was worth sharing.
THE OVERVIEW/SUMMARY?
*************************
IN SHORT: Hop bitterness, hop flavor, and hop aroma are 3 distinctly different characterstics. Obviously related, but each can age differently given recipes/techniques. More details below

HOP AROMA (from late/dry hops) - Hop aroma does fade over time. It seems to drop off a bit in the 30-90 day range, and even more so during the first 6 months of age. Seems to fade significantly by 6-12 months. Hop forward aroma beers are best consumed in about the first 90 days. Still very drinkable after 90 days, just less hop aroma, but not the end of the world. Hop aroma is most evident in beers with more simple grain bills and lower final gravity (because it competes less with malt aromas in this context)
HOP FLAVORs (from late hops) - Hop flavor fades over time, but more durable than hop aroma. It seems to begin to fade a bit in the 3-6 month time frame, and most after 6-12 months. Hop flavors are significantly muted at about 12 months. Beers intended with bold "hop flavor" are best comsumed with 3 months or max of about 6 months (please note NOT the same thing "hop bitterness"). Still very drinkable beers after 6-12 months, but more "bitter" than true hop flavors.
HOP BITTERNESS (from early boil hop additions). Ealry boil additions maintain hop bitterness much longer than late additon hops. (3CPA vs Dark Helmet above). Specialty/Caramel malts can "accelerate" the perceived "fading" of hop bitterness at a quicker rate in the 6-12+ month time frame (XXX IWA vs. Dark Helmet). Monsterous high IBU bitter beers can stay bitter for 6+ months to YEARS, given lower final gravities and more simple grain bills.

I havent posted to BA for awhile, so decided it was my time to share some personal experience of value. Hope this helps the OP, others feel free to comment if anything sounds off base.

 

"If hoppiness fades, where does it run off to when the bottle is sealed?"

O2 in the beer and headspace will oxidize the aroma compounds. Some breweries have low dissolved O2 in the bottled beer, some don't. We are talking parts per billion O2, and lower is better. Some breweries have excellent bottling lines, some don't.

Sierra Nevada has done research, and found that some of the hop aroma is absorbed by the cap plastic material - called scalping. Some caps let in more O2. Twist offs were found to be poor for O2 ingress.

 

Honestly, once the beer touches the glass in the bottle, it's already too old for me.

 

I wonder this myself as well. Must be the hops they use or the way they use them? No idea.

 

Please follow my IPA rules:

Within 2 months of bottling: Good
2-4 months since bottling: Probably good
4-6 months since bottling: Probably not good
> 6 months since bottling: Not good

 

Gasbarro's Seekonk, MA has about 8 Stone 16th bottled in Aug '12. Get it while it's hot!

 

It's funny how beer forums debate whether hops' flavour can fade, but I've never seen any serious coffee drinker assert that roast coffee doesn't diminish as it ages. Same principle, different crowd.

 

I never cared to much for the IPA fresh hype at first... But then I didn't check the date on a SUCKS....after the first taste i was instantly sad.4 months old....only 4, and it was the hollow shell of a sucks. But i'm sure maltier IPAs have much less need for fresh hype.

 

While ive never tried to age an IPA, last month I accidentally bought a 6pck of Avery IPA that was brewed in late Sept 2012. By no means did it taste bad, actually it tasted pretty good. I could notice that it didn't smell as bright as it usually would and I did just get a little more malt that I usually would have though, but still a solid beer. Yea there is definitely hype about how drastic the change is and im sure it ranges from beer to beer, but if I had to choose im always getting the freshest IPA I can get.

 

Where to begin?

The OP joined BA less than a month ago. He must have been diligent enough upon joining BA to peruse the Beer Talk forum for threads over the past year to draw his first conclusion, i.e., that there is "hype" surrounding IPA freshness.

Despite that fact that he acknowledges that there is certainly ample scientific proof that hops fade over time (and that the world is indeed round), he is suggesting that, unless IPA drinkers have conducted their own experiments in this regard, the proof others claim is bunk and is merely "hype."

The OP appears to enjoy aged IPAs. That's cool. He can't seem to detect the hop fade in aged IPAs. That's cool, too. But when he extends his own anecdotal evidence to challenge the science and the experience of other BAs, he falls flat on his face.

My conclusion: The OP is a troll or was drunk at the time or both.

 

[quote
It was cellared at 60 degrees, and still has loads of hop flavor/



This is the key. I store all my IPAs at 40 - 45 degrees so once I get them home, the clock stops. Problem is, you don't know how they were handled from the time they left the brewery to the time you pick them off the shelf.

And oh yeah, fresh bread is better than stale bread, fresh fruit is better than old fruit, fresh vegetables are better than aged vegetables and FRESH IPA IS JUST BETTER THAN AGED IPA.

 

If I'm going to spend the time and money trading to get a top rated IPA/DIPA I want it fresh. Also, if I am paying top dollar for craft beer I want IPA's fresh. Call me crazy...

 

It seems to me that the "freshness hype" is a brewers reaction to the "cellaring hype."
Don't get me wrong though, it is painfully clear that IPA's change over time, and I've found that on average it has a greater negative impact on hoppier beers but much less so on beers with higher ABV%. As an example a beer like 120 min ages really well versus it's lesser alcoholic brother 60 min. For the most part though I just trust the brewer: on the PtE bottles RR explicitly states that the beer is meant to be consumed fresh. There was also a really interesting thread (http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/alchemist-faqs-answered-by-john-kimmich-video.86009/) where the Alchemist says that Heady is perfectly fine after 9 months although it changes in color and flavor a bit but ultimately he enjoys both! Just my two cents.

 

Welp, I bought a sixer of Sucks the first week it came out and another 2 months later because they were on sale. Noticeable difference, without a doubt.

I've also tried highly rated beers such as Stone IPA, Scuplin, and Double Jack and thought they were terrible. I have to assume that it's because people in Buffalo don't know a thing about good beer and that these California beers sit on the shelves for months until my dumbass comes along and buys it without looking for a bottled on date.

 

If more than 60 days, no thanks. Yes I have experienced a huge drop with many. Green Flash Imperial, West Coast, Firestone Double and Union Jack, Lagunitas whole family of IPAs, and Oskar Blues IPAs. It isn't in my head it is fact for my taste buds. If I am going to spend $12 on a 4 or six pack, I want it to taste the way I know it can. Do me a favor and don't check dates and then I can get more fresh beers. Only IPAs I age 120, Devil Dancer, and Burton Baton. I preferred DD and BB more fresh than muted, but 120 does get better. That is just my thoughts. To each there own.

 

Hype? To each their own, but an old IPA tastes like crap to me and basically defeats the purpose of the style. Keep buying up the old IPAs and leave the fresh one's for me. Thank you!

 

I had an old Sucks the other day and nearly poured it down the drain. It was pretty bad and lights years away from what it offered fresh. To each their own. If you like malty, oxidized beer, buy old IPAs.

 

Damn, kinda tough on the beaver there, Ward.

 

If you Google search, you just find a bunch of the stuff we're already talking about from different forums so you won't find the "ample proof" sought by the OP - just more opinion-based discussion. But... If you go into Google Scholar and search for hops degradation in beer, there's a whole slew of scientific articles that come up. Unfortunately you have to pay for those articles, but you can figure quite a bit out by reading the abstracts. Someone who has a valid university ID and on-line library privileges could probably get the full articles. The aromas change/fade, the flavor changes, and the really clever chemistry folks can tell exactly which compounds are affected (and how fast they degrade and what they turn into) using a pretty impressive array of scientific methods. The changes are impacted by light (duh), storage temperature (duh^2), oxygen, and other factors.

Whether everyone can perceive the changes or not is another matter, similar to any other question regarding taste and aroma attributes of beer.

Bottom line, it is a real phenomenon. Whether that is for better or worse is up to the taster. It's a fact - attributes contributed by hops change over time. That has nothing to do with the "hype train". I think it was CaveDave who contributed the home brewing savvy earlier in the discussion - right on the mark.