IPA freshness

The BLACK MAXX Stir Plate is some serious coin at 150 bucks (excluding tax and shipping).

So, is there a ‘real’ benefit to very short dry hop residence times on the homebrewing level? Lately I have been dry hopping for 14 days and I have been very pleased with the results from this duration.

Cheers!

 

The beers I've made with the short residence time had 10-20% of my expected hop aroma & flavor compared to the beers with my normal dry hop residence time (7-10 days in primary, duration if keg hopped), despite being triple dry hopped (3 separate hoppings, 3 days pull, repeat).

You should see what the commercial stir plates we use in the lab cost... $600-1200. I was shocked at how expensive they are.

 

I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question. What was your motivation for trying short residence times?

I have always dry hopped for a duration of 7-14 days (lately 14 days).

Cheers!

 

I listened to some podcasts with Matt Bryndlson from Firestone Walker (Former Hop Chemist IIRC), and the Head Brewer from Kern River... Both mentioned in their podcasts how they use very short residence times when dry hopping (2-3 days) and in several of their beers multi-stage dry hoppings (Which I have had great success with). Having been really impressed with their core beers and special beers (Triple Dry hopped with Citra Double Jack at a Firestone event, wow...) I figured I'd give it a try.

I believe Mitch Steele also mentions in "IPA" that at Stone they shorten their contact times to avoid "stemmy" and vegetal flavors from dry hopping too long, which I believe they cut off at around 7 days IIRC.

As OldSock mentioned, it might be because of recirculation via pumps, or extraction efficiency, equipment, etc., that they get vegetal flavors much more quickly than we do, or, it could also be likely that they just have more sensitive palettes than us

 

New research has shown that the essential oils are extracted in 24 hours or so. After that are the "other flavors".

 

Thank you for your response.

On one level I too enjoy hearing what production breweries do when they brew their commercial beers. I ferment my beers in a plastic bucket which I highly suspect is significantly different then the equipment/process that breweries such as Firestone Walker employ.

I suppose it could be argued that I am an old fuddy duddy but I employ the techniques/methods that have been articulated by the old school (is that the right term?) homebrew dudes:

In John Palmer’s online book How to Brew he states: “The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer.”

In Al Korzonas’ book Homebrewing Vol. 1 he states relative to dry hopping: “At ale fermentation temperature (say 60 – 70 degrees F), 10 days to two weeks is about the right time.”

In the book Brewing Classic Styles by John Palmer and Jamil Zainashef for an Imperial IPA recipe they state relative to dry hopping: “Let the beer sit on the hops for another 7 days, approximately 7 – 10 days total.”

For what it is worth, I have never perceived any stemmy or vegetal flavors in any of the homebrewed beers where I have employed dry hopping (and I have employed dry hopping a lot!). Is it because my homebrewing practices and equipment is different than what Firestone Walker and Stone utilizes? I suspect so.

Cheers!

 

I think that Palmer has totally re-written that part.

I ordered For The Love of Hops and listened to the interview on TBN. I'm really excited to read it. Not that old practices will no-longer work, but I do think that everything is open for discussion.

My take-away is neither is right or wrong. It's capturing different flavors and doing them in a way to carry flavors through the process. I do think that both that both FW and RR make great hop-forward beers, but I do get different hop flavors from them. And I tend to think the FW has a longer shelf life.

 

Some research on dry hopping, agitation, and short extraction times. http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf?sequence=1I (it looks blacnk when it loads, jsut scroll down).

 

I have read most of that, and it is very good work. His research is discussed in Hops, for those that do not have the book it is very thourough.

 

From my understanding it has to do with the concentration of specific essential oils...example Citra contains high concentrations of geranoil which yeast can help convert to citranollel...spelling aside I've done both methods and couldn't really find any strong indications either way, although I think I preferred the bright route (vinnie) with my ipa and so have continued using that technique.

 

I've read that in many places, but my anecdotal experience says otherwise...i tried dry hops for 3 days and was completely underwhelmed compared to 7 days on the same dry hops. 7-10 days has become my sweet spot.

 

Were you doing continuous agitation?

 

I bottle all my beers and have not noticed my DIPA going bad or losing flavor or any charteristics, if anything they get better.

 

One of the wonderful things about brewing is that everyone's palate is different. I like my hoppy beers to be as fresh/bright/aromatic as possible, but that isn't for everyone.

 

negative...right forgot about that detail.

My guess is that you aren't over dry-hopping your beers which can lead to harshness when fresh. I'm finding 3-5 oz/5g in two stages is a my happy place for dipas. When I was adding 8oz...the beers were great, but need time to mellow, in other words, a waste of time, money & hops.

 

Totally agree with this... there is such a thing as over dry hopping.