IPA/NEIPA off flavors

I've brewed a few batches of NEIPA with varying success. The ones that I did not like had rubbery, hot Band-Aid, medicinal smells and sometimes tastes to them. As bad as that sounds, they were still drinkable and I even had some people claim to not pick up on that stuff (yes, maybe just being nice). For a while now I was thinking it was the Simcoe. All these batches had Simcoe in them and I drank some commercial examples that, to me at least, showed similar characteristics. In between these batches, I brewed some Hefes, a Kolsch, a couple Saisons, and a cider and they all came out fine so I am assuming my procedures, cleaning, water, etc. are decent. It's something to do with IPAs. I searched on these forums a lot and was able to find a few examples of BAs expressing similar woes with their IPAs. I think there was some poor guy who gave up brewing them altogether!!! I hope he's recovered since then.

"Hop burn" was a common theme in a lot of the threads. I guess we can get this when using excessive amounts of hops in our beers. However, there are BAs using incredible amounts of hops and claiming continued success. Other theories blame certain varieties. I was (and still kind of) convinced that I simply discovered that Simcoe gave me these unpleasant smells/flavors. I bet if I drank a Tree House beer with Simcoe in it I wouldn't feel the same though.

I brewed a few batches with tiny amounts of Simcoe and still got these off smells/flavors. I started thinking about the IPAs/NEIPAs I brewed that I loved. One difference I noted was the use of some kind of hop filter for my hop additions. When I first started brewing, I would always use muslin hop bags. The disagreeable smells and flavors starting happening when I started going commando at all times. I felt that going commando was the best method because you would get all that you could from the hops. They'd dissolve better and swim freely in the wort. But at the levels I was using (12-16oz per 5 gallons), is that too much for commando? @invertalon You've had great success with your NEIPAs and I know you use HEALTHY amounts of hops in your beers. Do you use a hop spider, muslins bags, etc. or do you go commando? For all - kettle additions, WP, fermentation/biotransformation hops, DH, etc.?

Another area that I thought could be a factor is pH. We know pH is important for brewing beer but is it even more important when using a large amount of hops? I'm reading about it now and I think I'm going to need some time to absorb what I'm reading. I understand a lower pH results in a generally livelier and crisper beer and a higher pH can result in a dull-tasting beer but I know there's more to it than just that. I have a cheap-o $15 pH meter that I've use a few times but I think I need to find a way to measure my pH accurately for every brew that I do. Is it possible I'm over acidifying my mash and that could result in these flavors? I use Brewcipher. I know the mash pH calc is just an estimate and I should take my own reading to confirm but I use 10% Phosphoric based on Brewcipher's estimates.

Lastly, while reading about pH I came across an interesting technique for the first time -

The reduction in solubility of hop acids can be seen during fermentation. After wort is pitched with yeast and the pH falls during fermentation, most of the unisomerized hop resins will come out of solution again. They become part of the brown gunk that floats on top of the Kraeusen which, if a smooth bitterness is desired, should be removed via blow-off tube, skimming and not allowed to fall back into the beer [Narziss, 2005][Kunze, 2007].

Based off of the above, if I'm going commando with 12-16oz of hops per 5 gallon batches, could these unisomerized hop resins that fall back into the beer be the culprits to making my IPAs harsh and rubbery/medicinal?

Also wondering if any of you engage in this technique of extracting this "brown gunk" from the Kraeusen. If so, how do you do it? Sanitized SS spoon?

Sorry for the long post. I was ecstatic with a few of my NEIPAs and I'm trying to get back to that point. Thanks for any responses. Always love hearing what you guys have to say.

 

Sorry sorry, my bad guys. I failed to mention that I use 100% distilled and build up with Gypsum and Calcium Chloride based on what profile I want. My profile has generally been about 160 Chloride to 80 Sulfate.

I've used London III a bunch and had varying success. It's funny, my two favorites were brewed with Gigayeast's Vermont yeast.

I clean with PBW, rinse a lot and I use Star San to sanitize (mixed only with distilled water). I keg and I dismantle kegs and faucets after every use. I use a CamelBak wire brush to clean diptubes (thanks again @Soneast). I dismantle QDs as well. Basically, I feel that my cleaning procedures are sound and I am avoiding chlorinated water.

@invertalon Interesting! Your methods and reported successes basically crush my theories! Crud. Thanks for the response. Heyyyy, did you reverse your chloride/sulfate ratio recently? I thought you were always heavy on the chloride!

I agree that chlorine and chlorophenols is a good place to start. I just don't think they're being introduced to my water/beers.

ETA - bittering hops. Very very little. I forget exacts right now but I've used Citra and Magnum to bitter. Very little though....IIRC for Citra like 0.5oz at 30min or something like that. Heavy WP hops (maybe around 7oz, i.e. 3 Citra 3 Amarillo and 1 Simcoe) and then I split my dry hops 50/50 between biotransformation and keg DH (maybe like 3oz each for a total of like 6oz for DH)

 

Awesome. I did not think of this and I have not read this anywhere. I will definitely consider this. When you say "vodka like finish" that very well could be what I'm smelling/tasting. I don't know if I'm good at describing flavors so we could be on the same page.

 

I get the Stop&Shop Acadia Pure Distilled Water. I thought distilled had to be "blank" (I could be way off). I wouldn't think places could label filtered tap water as distilled. I could see "Spring" water being simply filtered water though. Anyway, you could have a great point here @SFACRKnight I'll look into it! Thanks!

 

I mash in a rectangular cooler that I've outfitted with an SS ball valve (cleaned before and after every brew) - that goes through a high temp silicon tube. I actually have never replaced that. But every time I start my boil, I clean my mash tun, breaking down the SS ball valve and I soak the silicon tube in a hot PBW mix and rinse.

Boil, chill with my copper IC indoors with lid on and some tin foil. Then I open my ball valve on my SS brewtech 10 gallon kettle and fill my carboy through a sanitized SS strainer just to grab some of the bigger junk. Then pour my yeast starter in (sometimes decanted sometimes not). Shake like a madman for a few minutes and store in my basement at 62-72F depending on style. For these NEIPAs, I'll add the first dose of dry hops (biotransformation hops) on day 3 or 4. I spray the packaging with star san and try to gently drop the pellets into the fermenter. I do get little blips of splashing as I've used glass carboys up to this point (SS Brewtech Brewbucket arrived the other night!!!).

For my keg DH I use one of those SS 300 micron cylindrical filters that you can fit into corny kegs. Sanitized keg and filter of course. I "purge" (I know there's debate and misconception here but I do it anyway) my keg with CO2 and (/sigh), use an auto-siphon to rack into the DH keg. (It's a pain but I spend a lot of time cleaning and sanitizing the auto-siphon. I hate the thing. It's an abomination and I can't wait to toss it and just use gravity with the new Brewbucket)

After 3-7 days (depending on how long I want to DH) I use a NEW jumper line to rack off of the DH keg into the serving keg.

I concede though, I could be contaminating somewhere along the line. Other beers have tasted really good though. I admit, I do a lot more transferring with these NEIPAs than with any of my other beers.