Is Bottle Dating Really THAT Difficult?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by HopsAreDaMan, Dec 17, 2015.

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  1. HopsAreDaMan

    HopsAreDaMan Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2015 Missouri

    I am perplexed by how many bottles of beer seem to have no bottling date. Just to be clear, I have no problem with Julian dates, Anchor's somewhat cryptic method of bottle dating, Lagunitas' bottle dating, or even those that use marks on the label (like Ayinger's Celebrator) to indicate the date. When I buy a beer in a bottle (or can), I appreciate it if the brewer provides SOME WAY that I can figure out the bottling (or canning) date.

    I realize some local breweries brew so few bottles and assume the bottles of their seasonal beers won't sit on the shelf beyond a few months (one local brewery told me as much when I inquired about one particular seasonal brew, and as far as I know, they are correct). I am thinking of the larger craft breweries that distribute to any number of states, such that the beer sitting on the shelf may easily be over 4 - 6 months old.

    I realize, for example, if it is a winter beer and it just hit the shelf in November/December, it is very likely brewed recently. Specifically, I am thinking of beers that are brewed year round.

    And, yes, my guess is there will be some that will want to respond here with some judgement about my motivations around this question. Hey, go for it, let the judgments (and corresponding projections) fly! : P

    I am simply curious. I realize everything has a cost, and I am assuming bottle dating is not necessarily a simple or easy process. Does anyone have any information on how much it actually costs a brewery to time-stamp a bottle?
     
    #1 HopsAreDaMan, Dec 17, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
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  2. stealth

    stealth Pooh-Bah (2,023) Dec 16, 2011 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    A diamond-tipped multi-phased laser with magneto reluctance for etching dates, which we all know is the obvious best choice for bottle dating, starts at ~365k, which is why many do not go this route.

    Not sure how much the cheaper ink dating machines run.
     
    #2 stealth, Dec 17, 2015
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  3. MadeInTheMitten

    MadeInTheMitten Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2015 Michigan

    This seems to get posted at least once a month.

    It may not be "hard", but the machines are awfully pricey(look them up.. You'll barf) but so is craft beer.. So you figure it would even out a little. I'm pretty tired of people defending the Julian dating tho.. That shit has GOT to go.

    "It's not that hard.." Blah blah. It's not a matter of difficulty.. It's a matter of convenience.
     
    #3 MadeInTheMitten, Dec 17, 2015
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  4. TrojanRB

    TrojanRB Grand Pooh-Bah (3,779) Jul 27, 2013 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    You can buy top of the line inkjet machines for under $50k.

    You can date, serializable, whatever.

    I have them in my facility.
     
    #4 TrojanRB, Dec 17, 2015
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  5. Brolo75

    Brolo75 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,134) Aug 10, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm also curious as to why so many breweries do not date their beers. I can understand avoiding costs by not paying tons of money for a high tech dating matching but it can't be that much more to ink a date on a bottle. I pass up a lot of beers because there is no date especially IPA/IIPAs. I don't even mind putting a little work into figuring out a date.
     
    #5 Brolo75, Dec 17, 2015
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  6. russpowell

    russpowell Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,292) May 24, 2005 Arkansas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I just don't buy from most breweries I can't this out any more for the most part, this stuff is getting too damn expensive to place guessing games or me needing to break out a phone to figure it out. Sure as hell ain't buying from pricey ones that can't do me a solid.
     
    #6 russpowell, Dec 17, 2015
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  7. Karnivool1

    Karnivool1 Initiate (0) Dec 28, 2014 Illinois

    With so many beers out now, and so many shelf turds, I agree it's becoming increasingly important for bottle dates. And no, I don't want to do work to figure out a date (Julian), a simple date like 12/16/15 is not too much to ask.
     
    #7 Karnivool1, Dec 17, 2015
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  8. 1000lbgrizzly

    1000lbgrizzly Maven (1,497) Jul 16, 2013 Illinois

    I don't understand the ones who do date their bottles but use cryptic methods (Anchor comes to mind). If the machine for dating is available, why not use a universally understood method? And if the machine available cannot be adjusted to produce a universally understood method, why did you blow the money on that crap in the first place? Should have saved it for a good one, not half-ass it.

    Does anyone else want to meet up at midnight in an offending brewery's parking lot and demand a change? I can bring a few pitchforks and torches.
     
    #8 1000lbgrizzly, Dec 17, 2015
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  9. HopsAreDaMan

    HopsAreDaMan Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2015 Missouri

    I am currently looking at a number of Ballast Point bottles, and while the Sculpin has a Julian code on the label, the other beers (Grapefruit Sculpun, Habenaro Sculpin, and Victory at Sea) have no date or code anywhere, as far as I could see. As much beer as they sell, I'm certain they could afford a 300K machine, let alone a 50K machine, to put the dates on their bottles. That makes me wonder if it's more than just about money. Perhaps, they--and other large breweries like them--don't think it's necessary?
     
    #9 HopsAreDaMan, Dec 17, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
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  10. HopsAreDaMan

    HopsAreDaMan Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2015 Missouri

    Thank you for your reply! I love that image! I got a good laugh out of that one. But, as much as I want then to date their bottles, I'd rather simply communicate (call, e-mail, etc.) with a brewery every now and then, telling them I would appreciate it if they would put dates on their bottles. The way I look at it, if you don't ask, it's not likely you'll get what you want.
     
    #10 HopsAreDaMan, Dec 17, 2015
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  11. HopsAreDaMan

    HopsAreDaMan Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2015 Missouri

    I agree, if they put a date on there, they may as well make it easy to read. Yet, I'll take a Julian date or ANYTHING that gives me a clue as to when it was bottled over NOTHING.
     
    #11 HopsAreDaMan, Dec 17, 2015
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  12. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    It's a myth that it is expensive to have some form of dating on the bottles. See the other threads, especially the ones referencing the notching method used by Sam Adams. The dateless bottle brewers want their beer to sell regardless of how old it is.
     
    #12 yemenmocha, Dec 17, 2015
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  13. russpowell

    russpowell Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,292) May 24, 2005 Arkansas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    edit: internet damn you; a lot of out of order words there. I am not buying excuses from brewers any more, end of story...
     
    #13 russpowell, Dec 17, 2015
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  14. HopsAreDaMan

    HopsAreDaMan Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2015 Missouri

    That is what I speculate. And yet, having read some of the other threads about this, one poster made a very good point (I am paraphrasing from memory): in the long run, it is in the best interest of the brewer if the beer puts it's beer foot forward; if a buy a beer that (unbeknownst to me) is 6 - 8 months old, and it is so-so, I then wonder: it the beer simply not very good or is it because it is old? Sure, in the short term, they may sell more bottles of beer that has no date, but in the long run fewer people will want to go back and buy that particular beer again (and they may decide NOT to buy any other beers from that brewery as well).
     
    #14 HopsAreDaMan, Dec 17, 2015
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  15. HopsAreDaMan

    HopsAreDaMan Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2015 Missouri

    I would like to mention my gratitude here for the American breweries that I am aware of that DO date their bottles or cans (even if they only date MOST of the beers in their lineup):

    Great Divide
    Stone
    Founders
    Lagunitas (even though they are had to find, at least initially)
    Green Flash
    Uinta
    Anchor
    Bell's
    Sierra Nevada
    Santa Fe
    Oskar Blues
    Schlafly
    4 Hands
    Boulevard
    Southern Tier
    North Coast (although the dates at the bottom are often hard to read, and sometimes seem to rub off)
    Two Brothers
    Ska
    Evil Twin
    Stillwater
    Firestone Walker
    Free State (although they use a notch on the label system, which is not the best)

    I know there are many more that do provide dates.

    Here are a few I wish WOULD bottle date:
    New Holland
    Rogue
    Avery (some beers have it, but I believe many do not)
    Ballast Point
    Shmaltz
    O'fallon
    Deschutes (I believe some have it, and some don't)

    If they did have a date, it is more likely I would buy a bottle of beer of theirs that was sitting on the shelf.
     
    #15 HopsAreDaMan, Dec 17, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
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  16. Child_Pugh

    Child_Pugh Initiate (0) Feb 10, 2015 Rhode Island

    agreed. many people on this website will not agree though. they get almost offended to hear someone suggest that a craft brewery would do this. Half the consumer base wouldn't even know what a faded IPA tastes like anyway. Capitalism- get over it.
     
    #16 Child_Pugh, Dec 17, 2015
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  17. hopnado

    hopnado Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2014 Michigan

    Cryptic dates, Julian dates, no dates, smooshed together letter and number dates(ballast point)... They're all bullshit. I see it as a lose lose tactic used by many breweries. The savvy beer afficianado will most likely pass on a 6 month old IPA and the newbie wanting to try something new buys that same beer gets a shitty, dead hopped beer that will most likely turn them off to any future purchases of that beer. What the hell do I know though, BP just sold out for a billion $. Deception is probably more profitable
     
    #17 hopnado, Dec 17, 2015
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  18. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    Difficult ? No. Not at all.
    Any commercial brewery in Europe has to give some sort of consume by date and the ABV.And, however many breweries I visit I don't ever hear this requirement as a problem. One exception, a brewer who discussed with me me what would be a reasonable date to put on the label not knowing what would happen to the beer once it left the brewery.
    Most of our new breweries are pretty small and most of them don't bottle (they feel that bottling doesn't do their beer any favours) but those that do may well have the bottling done by specialist companies.
     
    #18 marquis, Dec 17, 2015
  19. russpowell

    russpowell Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,292) May 24, 2005 Arkansas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Been a while since I saw a Deschutes bottle without dating on it...
     
    #19 russpowell, Dec 17, 2015
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  20. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    When you find an IPA without a bottling date there is only one reason for it, to keep folks from knowing the age, and rejecting that bottle due to age. Even "best by" dates are done instead of bottling dates because the brewer figures most folks won't know how far out from bottling that date is.

    It costs no more to have labels printed with notchable month and year on the side, and damn little to get a saw to do the notching. If you hear a brewer say different you would be perfectly in your right to reply with a hearty "Bullshit, bullshit, we all know that's bullshit, you don't have dates because you don't want us to know how old the beer is."
     
    #20 cavedave, Dec 17, 2015
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