It's Not Fair, It's Really Not Right...

A lot of trading is about trust. I feel that lies will eventually come out or come back to haunt the liar, in beer karma or otherwise. If the markup seems significant given the market your potential trade partner is in, you turn down the trade. I don't think most traders would lie about $2-3 markup. For me personally, I look at it as that if I were traveling to my trade partner's location and saw the beer there for the quoted/alleged price, would I willing to pay for it. If yes, I'll trade. If no, I'll decline.

 

I completely agree. Experienced traders will know enough to research and find the typical retail price for the beers they are looking to trade for, so they have that reference point in advance. I suppose my concern would be for newer traders being taken advantage of in this type of potential situation. They might simply just go off the other trader's price quote without doing further research. I suppose it's part of the learning curve in trading but it still sucks there are some not so honest people out there regardless.

 

+1

I've traded for a lot of BCBS in the past and I try to go $4$ and I get a lot of responses of "BCBS was $32 a 4 pack here" stuff. It kills me.

I've been tempted to put in my thread "Don't message me if you way overpaid for your Bourbon County and want to pass it on to me." But then I'd sound like a total dick so I never do.

 

I disagree that what you describe here is what "$4$" means. To me--and I thought most people--the term is short hand for eliminating the value of rarity from the equation. It's not intended to enable someone to charge the price they paid for a beer. Just imagine if people calculated the cost they paid for a beer and included shipping for an online purchase. Paying shipping for an online purchase is functionally no different than paying a huge markup at a certain shop or a "cost of living" differential. That's what the person paid due to their purchase context.

The cost of living thing is an interesting argument to me, because while I know people in places like NY pay more for goods/housing/services across the board, people in higher CoL areas also tend to make more money for the same job than people in lower CoL areas.

While not all beers have an easily-established market price, I still think you can get close enough (within a few dollars either way) to establish common ground for trading. One of the reasons I haven't completed a trade for MC this year is because I'm not trading $20+ worth of beer for something that usually costs nearly half that just because they are marked up in the NY area.

 

i find it astonishing how many threads there are complaining about $4$ and when you read the details it is someone trading an $18 beer for a $15 beer...i mean WOW!?!?!?! REALLY?!?!?! someone worried about a $3 difference is not going to send a box that knocks your socks off. and isn't that what extras are about? to not only make up $ difference but to ensure that you send too much? i am so thankful that i've established more than a few solid relationships over the years that i don't have to deal with this. i still find new awesome trading partners too and have made a few regulars in the past year or two, so my word of advice to ALL traders is try to build relationships, not trade for a bottle. if you go into beer trading with this mentality you will in the long run enjoy the experience...if you are hung up on ensuring that you are getting perfect parity, then you are missing the point and will never have a relationship. remember, relationships are what results in you getting extra'd that super hyped $15 beer that y'all are complaining people are looking for $50 "worth" of beer for.

the golden rule always has and always will apply. along the path to building relationships you will find some one night stands, but you can usually sniff out the good ones in your convos with people, just like when you make a new friend.

 

I was negotiating a trade of Avery and Crooked Stave for Bruery beers with a new trader. I drove 1+ hours one way completely out of my way to pick up Avery at the brewery for him (although truth told I was using this as an excuse to visit their new location for the first time) . Also, offered CS Batch 50 (one time release at the tasting room 100 cases). AFTER all this, while trying to finalize the trade on a specific $4$ discussion on BOTH sides, he randomly comments he wants to change it because I am only offering "shelf turds" to his "exclusive" members beers, and I needed to see his side/perspective. (This even though I mention I had been a Bruery member multiple previous years, and he was not sending me a single beer I hadn't already had!) I told him deal done and I planned to just drink the beers I had picked up for him. He apologized, but didn't back down from his stance nor his renegotiation terms, then starts to say how he would like to be regular trading partners. HA! I extensively explained how with every one of my long time trading partners, there was never a discussion about it. It was organic every time. No response.

Although this was a very disappointing reintro to trading for me after a hiatus, I have had multiple GREAT experiences with new trades since, to the extent one was so impressed with my extras that he sent a follow up extra box unsolicited. Great traders are still out there, even among the new ones!

 

Also, I am a believer that rarity is a reasonable factor to consider, but only if both traders are REASONABLE. And someone is almost ALWAYS going to come out on top, and the other on bottom, whether ounces or rarity or something else, even in straight $4$ (i.e. Track 10 for Heady 4 pack...WAY off on ounces).

You see, this trading business comes down to VALUE, and incorporating all factors, THAT is what must determine final terms in the eye of both beholders. I straight up told Mr. Exclusive Bruery that he valued his beer more than he valued mine, and that was fine, but that was also why we were done. No fault, no anger or judgement on our differing perspectives (other than my total effort and him none and then changing terms later), but in the words of George H. W. Bush as portrayed by Dana Carvey...

Naaaght gaaahna dough it!