Keg carb method...?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by mattbk, Feb 1, 2013.

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  1. mattbk

    mattbk Savant (1,111) Dec 12, 2011 New York

    For a recent batch we tried carbing a keg in a new way - which I think is more akin to how beer would be carbed in a brite tank.

    First, we pressurized the headspace, as usual. Then, we removed the gas line and connected to the liquid poppit valve. Then, slowly added pressure to equilibrate the "beer pressure" and head pressure. Basically, bubbling the CO2 directly through the beer, as would be done in a brite tank.

    We had a lot more turbulence this way, and have yet to try the actual beer, but we believe this should be (at least a slightly) faster way to carb. Anyone else tried this technique? Mostly, I've heard the sit and wait, as well as the crank it to 40 psi and shake the shit out of it. Haven't heard this before. Any concerns with scrubbing flavor/aroma out of the beer this way? (We didn't think so since the headspace was pressurized.)
     
  2. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I like the 30 psi for 2 days, then put it to the proper psi for the style and enjoy carbed beer and it will appropriately equilibriate over the next few days or week. No shaking needed
     
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  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Personally I would be a little concerned about scrubbing away aromatics. I have heard of someone fast carbonating using a Blichmann beer gun, which seems pretty goofy to me. I think I'll stick with 'set and forget.'
     
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  4. DrewBeechum

    DrewBeechum Pooh-Bah (1,954) Mar 15, 2003 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Unless you're using a sintered stone and allowing a slow release of CO2 form the headspace to allow more CO2 formation, you're not really getting much value from the process I think you're doing.

    Me, since I'm usually quickly jamming out a mass of beer just ahead of a festival and I'm lousy at keeping myself on task. :slight_smile: I use my shake method. I get the beer into the mid 30's and find the appropriate Volume to PSI setting for the beer and temp. Attach the gas to the gas side at that setting +1 p.s.i. and then rock the keg back and forth on it's side for 10 minutes.

    This way it's impossible to overshoot and I still get the benefits of getting my beer to service faster.
     
  5. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    I have heard of people doing that, but I've never tried it. From what I understand, the very short time that the CO2 is in the beer before it bubbles up to the headspace is unlikely to have much impact on the speed of carbonation. But it probably doesn't hurt, either.

    I'd like to do 'set it and forget it,' but unfortunately I have to keep my C02 tank inside the chest freezer I use for kegging, which means that the dial readings on the regulator aren't accurate. So I usually use the '40psi and shake' thing. Also, I'm impatient, and this lets me get a taste of my beer sooner.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    The dial readings are accurate when the CO2 tank is in the fridge. Why wouldn't they be?
     
  7. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Initiate (0) May 11, 2007 Minnesota

    I did it once and felt like it wasted a lot of Co2 compared to the shake method. Scrubbing seems like a legit concern I never thought of.
     
  8. hopdog09

    hopdog09 Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2012 Michigan

    I don't think it changes anything..however you introduce the co2 it still has to go into solution..I would think that the additional surface area on the headspace would allow the co2 ito go into solution quicker maybe..by shaking/splashing you effectivly increase the surface area..
     
  9. mattbk

    mattbk Savant (1,111) Dec 12, 2011 New York

    Thanks everyone. Based on the fact that the headspace is pressurized, my thoughts are that many of the CO2 bubbles would be "forced" into dissolving into the beer. Of course, not as effective as a stone, but maybe more effective than shaking or waiting: the surface area of CO2 to beer should be higher with this method.

    I am a bit nervous about aromatics though, but I assume most commercial brewers already do something like this in brite tanks. See this post:

    http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?24886
     
  10. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Initiate (0) May 11, 2007 Minnesota

    Are you using a carb stone? The brite tanks are using a stone as far as I know, and this may help this type of process.
     
  11. mattbk

    mattbk Savant (1,111) Dec 12, 2011 New York

    No not using a stone. The purpose of the stone is to reduce the bubble size, making the surface area between the CO2 and beer larger, thus allowing the CO2 to more quickly diffuse into the beer. We figure the larger bubbles in our keg are still smaller than the liquid surface between the beer and the headspace, so we should be getting some added benefit in terms of carbonation time. But it doesn't sound like the benefits are that large, even if the risks wind up being small (which we don't know yet.) Will maybe try this method one more time with a malt forward (not hop forward) beer and drink after one day of carbonation. If successful, I'll report back. Thanks again.
     
  12. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    Whoever told you that is wrong.
     
  13. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Does anyone prime and condition in the keg, allowing it to naturally carbonate like in a bottle? I've recently accumulated a few kegs and want to start, but don't have the scratch for full size CO2 tank and related gear at this point. What I'm thinking is for short-term term, to use the small chargers. I'd give the beer a shot or 2 when first kegged, just to get a little pressure on The lid, then let it Carb up with sugar etc, and use the charger again to push it out. (Keeping cold isn't a problem)
     
  14. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    My method used to be drewbage's, and was psnydez86's before that, but these days I'm more impatient. I usually just rack to the keg, put 50 psi on it, shake the crap out of it for about 30 seconds, then pull the gas off and stick it in the fridge. After it's chilled I pull the release valve to make sure there's not too much pressure and hook it up to the serving gas/bev lines.

    The problem with that method is that it's possible to overshoot, especially if you have differing amounts of headspace, but I've kinda gotten a feel for it where I'm pretty close.
     
  15. nathanjohnson

    nathanjohnson Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2007 Vermont

    I used to do the shake method, and while it's quick, I was finding I was getting a good amount of carbonic bite. I've recently taken to cranking the psi to ~20, and leaving at that pressure for 24 hours, after which I turn it down to serving pressure of 10 psi, and leave for an additional 1-2 days. This gives me near-full carbonation in 3 days or so.
     
  16. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    If you say so. (But wait... you could be telling me wrong too. I'm so confused.)

    Can't remember who told me that. LHBS guy? I was having trouble getting carbonation right, and somebody patiently explained to me that it's because lower temp changes the gas density and the meters won't read right, blah blah. So I believed him. And switched to the shake and bake method. Anyway, probably shouldn't have repeated it without knowing for sure.
     
  17. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    The CO2 in the bottle is liquid.
     
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Changes in temperature change the actual pressure of the CO2 in the tank. The gauges, unless they are defective, will give the correct reading of the actual pressure. I would bet the LHBS guy noticed the big drop in the high pressure side gauge once when he refrigerated a tank and figured that gauges don't work at cold temps. Whatever the reason, I am frankly shocked (yes, shocked) that an LHBS employee would disseminate bad information.
     
  19. nathanjohnson

    nathanjohnson Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2007 Vermont

    lulz
     
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  20. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    That's the guy who was wrong. Unless your gauge is defective, it'll read the correct pressure, regardless of the temperature. Within reasonable limits, of course.
     
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