Kegerator foam issue

Discussion in 'Home Bar' started by Motomx58, Apr 4, 2016.

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  1. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    Well, I have been a long time lurker here and spent a lot of time reading and researching for buying a kegerator. Fresh beer is better, right? Well, I'm on my second keg of New Glarus Brewing's Spotted Cow which is a farmhouse ale. I'm getting non-stop foam for the first pour, an issue I have searched, read, and failed to figure out. Here is my configuration:

    Edgestar Kegerator
    Liquid temperature at 37 degrees Fahrenheit
    8 feet of regularly cleaned line
    10 PSI
    Tower Cooler

    Still getting foam on my first pour. I'm at a lost now. Like I have said, I have searched and read many articles and posts about this issue. I usually can figure something out with research & trial/error. I'm about to pull my hair out.
     
  2. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico

    8 ft. may not be enough... PSI could be too low as well. Had some issues with FBS a couple months back. I had to bump up PSI. I want to say from 10 range to 14.

    Are you fully opening the picnic tap (if thats what you have)?
     
  3. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Head straight to the BA Home Bar forum for the answer. (Also expect this topic to be moved there)

    I'll be back to help when I can get in front of a computer. ..it's way too much to type on a phone.
     
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  4. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    Ok, I'll head to the brew store for 10 feet? I'll also bump to 14 PSI. Yes, tap is opened all the way. Clean glass, usually rinse it with filtered water before pouring beer.
     
  5. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico

    It's tricky.

    Given your current settings, you are right at 2.6 on first carb chart.

    http://www.homebrewfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/carbonationchart.jpg
    https://beermasters.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/screen-shot-2015-07-21-at-1-59-38-pm.png?w=1024

    Then looking at ywhere 2.6 resides, you are within that yellow zone. Extra length, up to 18 ft could help. But I would try PSI first.

    Also, has it recently been moved? A moved or shaky keg is pretty much like a soda ready to explode.


    Working backward, your 8 ft at 37 degrees is still within the carb guidelines (2.4) for ales. I've done the guideline thing and just always had to experiment for a day while drinking samples lol

    Good luck
     
  6. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Whoa. Don't go straight from 10 to 14. There is a process here.

    Look at the beer line where it comes out of the coupler. Is it solid beer or is there a bubble. This is critical in troubleshooting.
     
    Dan_casey and drtth like this.
  7. hophugger

    hophugger Grand Pooh-Bah (3,434) Mar 5, 2014 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah

    I'll take the keg. I am sure I can figure it out if I have it in my possession, lol !!
     
    Dan_casey likes this.
  8. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Ok so here we go. If you look where the beer line comes out of the coupler and you see that there appear to be CO² bubbles breaking out of solution, this indicates that your pressure is set a little too low. Ideally, the line should be beer only with no gas pockets. (We call such a line "packed")

    It's entirely possible to balance your system without knowing the temperature:

    1.) Bump your regulator up about ¼-½# by turning the adjusting knob ⅛ of a turn clockwise.

    2.) Wait 10 minutes

    3.) Pour 4 oz. of beer by opening the faucet completely

    4.) Put glass of foam inside keg box

    5.) Observe beer line at coupler...look for bubbles breaking out of solution. They will become increasingly smaller and slower to break out as you continue to perform this operation.

    6.) If you see bubbles, repeat Step #1. It's critical that you only turn the adjustment knob ⅛ turn (clockwise)

    7.) Close door and wait 10 minutes.

    8.) Open door and drink the beer which was foam earlier (waste not...want not)

    9.) Pour 4 oz. of beer by opening the faucet completely

    10.) Continue this process until your line is packed and no bubbles appear in the beer line exiting the coupler

    11.) Once no bubbles appear, turn the regulator up one more ⅛ turn.

    12.) Mark your regulator with a Sharpie® to indicate an initial balance point in case a friend, family member or pet moves the adjustment knob in an attempt to help you out. There is usually a locknut to assist with this. tighten it up.

    13.) Report back to this forum when you are pouring clear beer with a 1" collar of foam

    14.) Enjoy a bright future with draught beer at your disposal!
     
  9. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    How does a second beer pour? Third beer? Depending on your answer, this may be an easy fix.
     
  10. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    I do see bubbles out of the coupler. I will follow your directions when I'm off work Wednesday and Thursday. Thank you!
     
  11. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    Second pour is good, third pour is good...that's if I pour two in a row. If I pour one good one for myself and when I go back to get another one, the first pour is about 3/4 foam.
     
  12. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Your description makes me think your tower cooler is not doing its job. If your faucet/shank/tower-lines are too warm it will cause the CO2 to off-gas too quickly, i.e. foam. A quick second pour isn't affected because the first pour has cooled everything down (temporarily). So it sounds like your system is balanced but you just need more cold air in the tower.

    I haven't fooled around with tower coolers, if you can get @DougC123 to join in the discussion I believe he has more experience here.
     
  13. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    I think with bubbles in the line he is fighting two things. I'd go with the IceAce pressure increase program and just confirm in the set up that the tower cooler is taking air from near the cold plate and sending it right up to the shank. Also important for a tower cooler is enough room for the air to return back out of the tower. To check flow if you pop the top of the tower off you should feel a good flow of air, and with the top back on the tower you should feel air returning at the top of the cooler below the tower.
     
  14. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah

    In your situation immediate pours will always be good as gas has not had time to escape in the beer line.

    Adjusting the pressure upwards (slowly & in a controlled manner) will solve much of this problem.

    I'm a big fan (pardon the pun) of tower coolers, but that is not the enemy at this moment.
     
  15. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    So, before I left for work I did the instructions provided here. I see no more bubbles in the line. I also moved the tower cooler intake near the blower inside the kegerator and brought the tube from the tower cooler a bit more down. The and of the tube was about 3/4 to the top of the cooler. I'm also thinking of relining the tower with a different insulator. Right now it's just cheap black foam that came with the fridge.
     
    #15 Motomx58, Apr 6, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  16. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    I'm sitting at 14PSI now.
     
  17. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    Just got home from work. No bubbles in the line. Poured a glass, came out pretty quick, and a lot of foam but it expanded far quicker than when it was under 10PSI. Maybe I should knock it down a few PSI?
     
  18. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    This 'run it up some, knock it down some' isn't how you need to come at this. This isn't a guessing game, you have three variables that are interconnected and need to be adjusted slowly and based on each other. You had a temperature...you said it was a liquid temp. What liquid? Ideally you want the beer temp, and you get this by starting with a room temperature glass and a calibrated thermometer. Pour a beer, immediately chug or dump, and pour a second beer. Take the temp of the beer, not foam, without touching the glass. That's your temp. What beer are you pouring? It will have a specific volumes of CO2 that you are trying to maintain. If you don't know the exact number, we can estimate based on the style. For ales and lagers it will likely be 2.6 - 2.7. You then take these numbers to a force carbonation chart which will tell you the correct pressure to apply.
    Did you put in the 10' lines?
     
  19. Motomx58

    Motomx58 Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 Illinois

    Ok, so I switched to beer as the liquid and I'm sitting at 33 degrees. That seems way too cold? I'm pouring spotted cow from New Glarus Wisconsin brewery, farmhouse ale. I'm at 14 psi. And my line is 8 feet. There are no more bubbles in my line. Still getting foam but it's thicker and faster forming when it was compared to 8psi as I had before. I haven't touched anything, too afraid to go backwards than forwards. Btw, happy beer day!
     
    Redrover likes this.
  20. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    Did you use the technique I described to get the temp? Did you use IceAce's technique to raise the pressure or did you go right to 14? Make sure you are opening the faucet all the way, partial opening causes foam. The glass should be at a 45 degree angle. The glass shouldn't be from the freezer, a frosted glass will cause foam also. What does your second pour look like?

    33 is really cold, and lower temps call for lower pressures. New Glarus should be able to tell you the correct volumes of CO2 which will help this effort also.
     
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