King Henry's Whale Status ?

For cheap bourbon, I swear by Evan Williams Single Barrel. I've seen it as low as 23 dollars a bottle, and I'd take it over most everything else in its price range, including Woodford. YMMV.

 

In the end, whether something has the "whale" label or not is up to the individual I guess. However, whether or not KH has the "whale" label or not, it's retired, only 12000 were bottled, its becoming harder to find since there are few and fewer capped bottles every day, and above all it's an exceptional beer. I frankly doubt that GI will call another barrel-aged barleywine KH if it is ever produced (plenty of English kings' names that can be used). That's why it's becoming harder and harder to trade for. I frankly don't think trading KtG or other beers of that "ilk" for KH is an unbalanced trade. In fact, I've seen more trade proposals that were unbalanced in the other direction. For example one 11.2 oz bottle of KtG for two 22 oz KH.

 

just changing your post slightly to reflect the argument that could be made for a particular vintage of kate.

batch variation is sometimes just as pronounced as a different recipe. sadly, most people try to trade just based on what's on the label and wear their self-interest on their sleeve.

 

This, 1000 times over. There are 900 bottles of the retired Kate 2010. 900 bottles of the retired Kate 2011. 2000 bottles of the retired Kate 2012.

chanokokoro - I think you're both really underestimating just how massive of a release 12,000 bottles is, and ignoring the fact that every vintage of most of these small batch limited releases are different beers every year. This isn't Sam Adams Boston Lager where the beer tastes exactly the same on every batch.

King Henry is a tasty beer. So is Kate. So are lots of other beers. When it comes down to it, the biggest factor involved in trades is rarity, and bottle count is probably the single best proxy of rarity. From that standpoint, 2 KH's for 1 Kate isn't off in the least. And if you think that is a lot for a Kate, I'm positive your jaw would hit the floor if I showed you the 200 offers I had last year for Kate 2011 bottles.

 

this is why i'm curious to see how beatification will trade. i wonder if all the king henry, bcbcs, bramble, cbs, cbh, etc. that have gone into hiding will suddenly emerge to play. it would be amusing if none of those could land this " large " release....

 

I predict all of those beers will definitely poke their heads for Beatification. Everybody is stockpiling shelf stuff nowadays with the hopes of "trading up". Hell, you already see it with every other ISO for something super limited lately that looks like this "ISO: DAMON FT: CURMUGEON'S BETTER HALF, BCBCS, BRAMBLE".

Here's the interesting thing - if the trend continues with Beatification, then Beat owners will just do the same thing and hold out for the next step up, thereby shunning the GI/Founders hoarders. In fact, if that happens it may just be the event that makes people realize they don't need 14 bottles of GI -bal variants and it could finally open the reasonable trading floodgates. One can hope...

 

probably. i know i'm not trading any. there will be no mercy.

 

You're getting beatification? I'll make sure to keep my eyes out for ripped humble dudes when I'm up there.

I'm of two minds about trading beat, mostly because I already have bottles of all of those recent, large-but-still-wales beers. I've committed some to a past trading partner, but am seriously considering just holding onto the rest. Based on the B3 I had at -tion night, I'll want to have some a couple years from now.

 

i will part the crowd like moses.

it ages well. i keep saying it's the best thing he does. i stand by it.

 

Hopefully, after installing the coolship, Vinnie will release more new exciting beer. I've been waiting for a new sour for a long time. I saw the next batch of Beatification (b6?) going to their coolship so I'm kind of dissapointed. Don't get me wrong, I love Beat but I want new beers too.

 

In my mind, beatification does what no other wilds (that I've had) do, which is really incorporate all the flavors you find in a lambic. I think it's something you just can't do without the spontaneous fermentation, so I'm glad that it seems like they're going to do more of that. I really hope they start making spontaneously fermented fruit beers (like FfaC batch 1), I'd love to try some.

 

Yep, they need kriek, peach,apricot, grape... or bring back 50/50. So stoked about Toronado 25.

 

i was lucky enough to snag 4 bottles. i had one, thought it was great, but its not in my top 10 beers. i traded 2 away to friends, and the other to someone on this site for a beer ive been wanting for a long time now. it may have been a whale, but its all about personal value to me.

 

i haven't had beatification, but most cascade / RR / lost abbey / captain lawrence american wilds compared with cantillon and drie fonteinen are like night and day, exactly for the reasons you're stating (probably forgetting some american examples i've had).

i actually might even like stuff like cascade sang rouge or lost abbey red poppy more (probably much more) than i like most belgian lambics that i've had... but the complexity difference is objective, and should be really obvious.

 

Really? It isn't Sam Adams Boston Lager? Thanks for clarifying...I'm not at all familiar with small batch brewing...

Yes, there are slight batch variations. However, it is rare that a batch variation is so pronounced that it will equate to a change in recipe. Perhaps the possibility exists that you might be overvaluing batch variations?

The fact of the matter is that we have a difference in opinion that isn't going to be resolved. You think that every year of KtG should be treated as a separate beer. I frankly don't agree. I agree that there are variations that may lead one to believe that one year or another is slightly better than another, where we differ is that I believe that at the core they are all KtG regardless of the vintage. The different vintages aren't that different to be considered separate beers. Furthermore, KH was introduced through a "massive" one-time release of 12000 bottles and then retired. I thnk you're underestimating how the fact that it's retired affects its availability. KtG continues to be released annually, not to mention in batches with increasing bottle counts. As far as quality they are both fantastic beers. I wouldn't trade two bottles of a fantastic beer in exchange for roughly 25% percent of the amount of another fantastic beers as compared to what I traded not to mention I'd be getting raked $4$.

I don't think the problem is that people are overvaluing KH. Rather, I think people are actually undervaluing it, or perhaps overvaluing their comparables, including KtG, in comparision.

 

A beer is a whale only if it makes SpeedwayJim's list. Kate's old vintages actually do that. King Henry doesn't.

 

I think KH is a great beer but it is nowhere near true "Whale" status. This term is thrown around far too much. Maybe in 8-10 years it will be but as of now, no.

That does not mean it's not a great beer though.

Take into consideration what Black Note is trading for. Is that beer a "whale." Hell no its not, but it receiving the attention of a whale and trade demand. I think times are changing and the trading has become saturated with hype and misconceptions. Rare is not even a whale. It demands a high trade value based on price and the phenomenal quality but it is not a "whale" either.

 

Please forgive my grammatical errors on the above post. I've BEEN drinking.

 

I agree.

 

Agreed. "Whale" if thrown around far too much. I think you hit on a very important factor---quality. Which beers have reached the "top tier" so to speak. That's a factor that is not taken into account enough on it's own, independent of bottle counts and such.