King Henry's Whale Status ?

when you have one to drink, one to cellar, and four to trade, of course.

 

Let's all remember that the 'whale' title doesn't actually mean jack shit...

If you really want a beer, look for it on the trade boards. If you make a silly offer, no one will bite. If you see a silly offer, no one is gonna bite that one either.

Give it a rest and detangle your undies.

 

I said it's rare (not never) that there's a variation that will cause you to say, "This doesn't even taste like_________ (fill in the blank)." As I've been drinking the majority of beers you listed from year to year, I realize as well as everyone following this thread, there are variations that may make one vintage slightly more or less desirable. But to the point the beer isn't still Abyss (2009 infection aside), Parabola, Abacus/Sucaba, BA Blackout, BCBS or KtG for that matter? Definitely, no.

I have two KH's left of three. One I'm going to share with a friend next weekend, the other I'm cellaring. Sorry to disappoint you, but I have no self interest in this.

I never said people undervalue new releases in general. I was specific that people undervalue KH, a retired new release, and cite the initial 12000 bottle release for justification. At this point perhaps 6,000-9,000 of those haven't been drank, it could even be less. Some of you act like KH grows on trees. I live in Chicago, it's a rare find. Yeah there might be people that were able to get a case--I don't know any of them (wish I did!) and they are very, very few and far between. In the end, I can give a crap about whether its considered a "whale" it's a completely subjective and arbitrary label anyhow. It's just truly laughable that people think that two 22 oz. KH for one 11.2 oz KtG, both beers of superior quality, is an even trade...

 

That's easy. It would take at least two Loeriks....

 

You haven't been seeking beers much in Chicago, have you? Chicago is a war zone per my trading buddies. Only because KH was tough for you doesn't make it = M or whatever.

That said, if you looked at my posts, you will find that no one loves KH as much as I do.

 

that's exactly what i'm driving at. even with batch variation, changed recipes, and changed barrels, people still recognize what the beer is. you could damn well toss another barleywine in heaven hill barrels (say elijah craig) that aged bcbs for 2 years and call it king henry, and most people would recognize it as tasting like king henry. the idea that this beer is retired and continually dwindling in numbers is wishful thinking. this is a successful high-margin beer, not an honest politician.

everyone's opinion will vary. i think it's laughable that you think 1 for 1 is reasonable. ymmv.

anyway, i will drink my bottle of kh tonight. bottle count -1! waledom approaches!

 

Oh, its a war zone no doubt. I just choose to not act like a moron and frankly don't have the time. I live in the city, but fortunately, I'm lucky enough to work in the near suburbs and do the majority of my beer shopping out where I work. The same stuff is available, much easier and relaxed, less hoarding morons, and a lot of good people that I'm happy to give my business. KH wasn't that tough to get if you knew the day your favorite shops were getting it however everywhere had a one bottle limit. I got my three bottles and was happy. I'm sure I could have gotten more to "hoard" but just not interested.

Actually, I should clarify there's a lot less available King Henry. The demand is the same or increasing, and there's no supply. Most people are like me that only got a few bottles max and realize that all you've got is all you're going to get. People are more reluctant to part with it.

 

> less hoarding morons

Can't call others morons when you bought 3, can you?

Regardless, Surly Five was the rage at its release to give you an example. KH and, for instance, CBS, are doing strong up to this day because of their merit. However, no one knows whether they'll pull extremely limited and desirable beers 5 years from now. Really, no one does.

At this point, however, they will not.

> People are more reluctant to part with it.

Agreed. I was lucky to get my fill and without doubt, KH is the boss of its kind.

 

Three is hoarding? Never would have thought that... Anyhow the third was unexpected, as I got the third bottle a week later after my name was drawn in a raffle at a shop I frequent. Was happy with just the two. I never buy with the intention of stashing away large quantities for myself. I have bought extras of limited release beers at times for friends or trading buddies that can't get to the store during a release but that's about it. Frankly I haven't and don't intend to drink any of my KH's by myself. They will be shared with others. Sharing a exceptional beer with someone else who appreciates it as well is what it's all about.

 

Get a brain! MORANS.

 

while i still don't think there's any truth or falsity to "value questions," the level of naivete and delusion you're showing here is pretty astounding.

you're trying to assert that a widely distributed beer is as difficult to acquire as equally sought after beers from equally proven (if not even more prestigious) breweries released in batches from about 4% to 10% the size of KH's. (oh and by the way, you bought three of them off the shelf, via a minimum of planning)

you're also pretending to have some sort of "i'm a serious trader, talking seriously to other serious traders!" discussion, and in this quote you mentioned that demand increases, supply doesn't, and people become more reluctant to part with the one-off beer. well, what do you know!

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edit: p.s. i think it's sort of... disturbing... if you're telling the truth about not intending to trade KH. if you're not trying to inflate trade value, i'm not really sure how you fail to see the ease with which you acquired the beer, and the vast amount of it there is. it should be fairly obvious that the reason it demands a king's ransom (pun intended) is because of similar levels of delusion rushing through the "beer trading world" (read: excited naifs being consumed by greed and adrenaline after Bagging A Wale at the grocery store).

at the same time, KH (like every beer) is worth what people will give up to get it--not "it should be worth more/less," but it is worth exactly what people will give up. accepting this (as usual) obvious truth shouldn't lead us into believing other obvious falsities though.

 

Hoarding is a highly subjective definition. Generally speaking I'm not sure I'd consider 3 bottles hoarding, but at the same time I'd be careful not to throw stones in glass houses about hoarding if I were sitting on 3 bottles of such a thinly distributed beer. I do think you're toeing the line though if a beer had one-bottle per store limits and you went to three stores for it. Kind of defeats the entire purpose of limits, which is to spread the beer around to more people.

Ultimately whatever though - I doubt there are many people here who wouldn't happily pick up 2-3 bottles of KH if the opportunity presented itself.

 

Don't be a *****-der.

 

I agree shouldn't throw stones and should be less apt to use the term "morons..." as well.

 

Almost always the truth lies in the middle...

Naviete? Delusion? Perhaps you might what to think about some of your own inferences and assumptions...

Never did I claim that KtG was as easy to obtain as KH. That's your inference... I recognize KtG ihas a very limited annual release. Frankly, the reason I had an easier time getting KH is that I'm a regular customer at the two stores I stopped in, the people know me and let me know when they expect the deliveries. I just had to confirm KH arrived with a phone call and was only a few minutes away.

The real question is how much one values that "rarity" when comparing two beers of similar exceptional quality for their styles. I don't think it's worth 4x's as much beer by the amount in each bottle (11.2 oz of KtG vs. 44 oz. total of KH), however I do recognize that, at the moment, a less than one to one (when considering the total amount of beer) would be reasonable. However, it will be interesting in a couple years when the exisiting bottles of KH may very well be outnumbered by that years release of KtG (and who knows that could be a release of 3000 bottles by then...) what the value of each will be comparitively. My KH's will be long gone by then.

In the end, I don't think either of us are naive, delusional, etc. etc. Just as you stated at the end of the last post, we are both looking at many of the same factors and putting our own personal (and well-reasoned may I add) values on them.

 

can i come? perhaps i'll meet you at lost abbey?

 

How many Kate bottles are designated on-premise only or sent to bars?

 

Why would that really impact trade value? It's effectively the same thing as a "drank bottle", which is impossible to calculate. For all we know 95% of Kate bottles are drank by their owners and 50% of King Henry bottles go on the trade market. I'm certainly not saying that's what it is, but I think trying to subtract out "bottles at bars" and "bottles drank" is just playing with unknown variables.

 

Hi long time listener first time caller. In my tiny little brain I think something that is brewed every Year is not as "whalish" as a beer that will only be brewed once. I'll hang up and listen.