Lager Attenuation

Dave,

There was a Q&A with Dr. Clayton Cone (of Lallemand at that time) a number of years ago in another homebrewing forum where he made mention of 20 billion yeast cells per gram.

Below is a post by Denny Conn discussing this topic. Apparently he has done some cell counting.

“From Jamil at mrmalty.com...Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter.”

https://brews-bros.com/topic/46774-whats-the-number-of-yeast-cells-in-a-typical-dry-yeast-pack/

Do you have any contact information for folks at dry yeast manufacturers? Maybe for Dr. Tobias Fischborn of Lallemand? Perhaps you could contact them to confirm the above?

Cheers!

 

Just to clarify the above. Jamil has done counting... Not Denny, I don't think that falls into cheap and easy

 

I thought Kai did some cell counts with dry yeast and the numbers were all over the place. I think you can find it somewhere online. I think T-58 was the highest at 18 and S04 was the lowest, around 5 or so.

 

I have a lab here, with scope and everything. I scope all my yeast before I pitch. I would count for some more numbers but I don't have dry yeast, nor do I use it or believe in it!

 

When has that ever stopped science!?

I wouldn't mind digging in further...no time at the present, but things should lighten up by Christmas time and will try to get some answers from manufacturers. Could be a fun little piece to run as well in the next issue. Would gladly quote any numbers you come up with as well if you are able to sit down and dig in with your scope.

 

How do you feel about Bigfoot?

 

Don’t believe in it.

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C44CE34B2070B3A8D830C44CE34B2070B3A&FORM=VIRE

Bigfoot lives! ...although not with dry or lager yeast

 

The folks of Great Divide seem to believe!

 

Non-believers should probably shy away from this outfit

 

Regardless of the argument of how many yeast cells are in a package of yeast, the S-189 package clearly states that the correct dosage is "11.5 g in 20 to 30 liters". Thus one 11.5 gm package (specifically made for lagers) should be more than enough for a 5 gallon batch of lager. It also suggests sprinkling into the wort rather than rehydrating.

Regarding attentuation, the package of S-189 states that it is "high". Apparently, this is the same strain of yeast as used in the high alcohol Samichlaus (14%).

On the Fermentis site, it states:
"Pitching rate
What is the best pitching rate for my Ale beers?
The recommended pitching rate for our Lager strains in a first use of active dry yeast is from 80 to 120 g/hl, corresponding to 7 to 11 million cells/ml and for Ale from 50 to 80 g/hl corresponding to 3 to 5 million cells/ml.

It is linked to the fact that our standard dosage in our packaging is around 10×10^9 cells/gr. On packaging, we are not mentioning the standard results but the absolute minimum guarantee so 6×10^9 viable cells/gr."

The specific recommended dosage for S-189 is 80 to 120 g.hl (same as above), or 7 - 11 million cells/ml.

 

Converting the above, each 11.5 gm package typically contains about 115 billion cells (or guaranteed amount of 69 billion cells). The recommended amount is 7-11 million cells/ml., or 132.5 - 208.2 billion cells. Thus, their recommendation of one package for 20 - 30 liters is inconsistent with their cell recommendation. From the cell recommendation, it does look like two 11.5 gm packages are required.

I'm not sure why the instructions on the Fermentis package is so significantly inconsistent with their math for the recommended cell count.

 

Maybe for future packages they may make a change here?

Yesterday I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner using Fermentis W-34/70 and on the package of that product it states:

"Dosage: 11.5 g in 10 to 15 liters".

Or maybe S-189 contains greater than 10×10^9 cells/gr? Yeast cell sizes vary per yeast strain.

Cheers!

 

The only way to know for sure is to contact Fermentis. I have just sent them an inquiry. If I hear back, I'll post the reply.

 

Important For everyone's benefit, I just received a VERY important clarification from Fermentis concerning the 11.5 gm package:

"It seems there was a misprint on the packaging for the small sachets. The S-189 is pitchable to 10-15L not 20-30L. With that, you will want to use two 11.5g sachets for a 5 gallon batch."

Cheers!

 

You can if you want but there is no need.

 

Great pod from them if you haven't heard it.
http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/093-active-dry-yeast

 

Have you made great lagers with one package at the lower temperature range (i.e. about 48 F)?

 

Yeah I think you'd have to define need here. Sure you'll get beer underpitching yeast but it will affect the flavor profile of the beer and could lead it to under-attenuate.