Lager blues

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by inchrisin, Mar 23, 2014.

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  1. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I have a fridge out in my detached, unheated, garage that I use for fermentation. I put a 20 watt light bulb inside of the fridge to try to push the temperature higher than 55F consistently. I have an analogue Ranco to try to run the fridge and I set it to 55F. I brewed Friday and had a great temperature for about a day. Inside the fermenter read 54 to 55 consistently. I took another temperature inside of the fermenter today and my thermometer read 72F. Not good.

    I'm thinking this batch is a drain pour. What I'm more curious to know is if I can salvage the yeast. Does fermenting too warm with the yeast make them conditioned to fermenting warm, or will they go back to my next batch at 55F and do their thing?
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I would taste before drain pouring. Maybe you made a steam beer. Maybe it will be tasty.

    Lager yeast strains aren't harmed by working at higher temperatures. It's common to make room temperature starters, followed by fermentation at normal lager fermentation temperatures.

    I think you should probably re-think this light bulb thing. I wouldn't use any heat source without a controller.
     
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  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    My only experience in this regard is a saison with a germination mat wrapped around it, which I had been plugging in and unplugging on a schedule. I got off schedule and temps rose from 72 to 101 on the third day after pitching. The yeast (wlp 565) attenuated to 1.010 and quit. Fortunately this yeast can do ok at high temps and the brew was not a disaster. Lesson learned, though. Bought a temp controller.
     
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  4. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I have a Ranco hooked up to the fridge. I think the lightbulb, low wattage as it is, is still too much for the fridge and the controller to keep up with. The fridge started out cold (probably in the 30s) and I wanted to warm it up. I ran the light throughout brew day. I should have cut it off after I put the fermenter in the fridge. It's probably better to risk freezing the wort than to let it ramp up like that. Next time I'll turn the light on in short intervals when I'm home and work against that instead.

    EDIT: I like your idea of this just being a large, expensive, starter.
     
  5. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I use a heating pad with a cheap analog timer. After a little trial and error, starting on the cool side, you can achieve pretty good temperature control with the right on/off cycle.

    OP: A long lagering period will correct many of the problems from the warm ferment; your beer will likely be fine.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “I use a heating pad with a cheap analog timer. After a little trial and error, starting on the cool side, you can achieve pretty good temperature control with the right on/off cycle.”

    Jerry, I just gotta ask: how many trial and error experiments has this taken? I have a brew belt and an on/off timer (that I bought at Home Depot) and I have tried a couple of times to get a ‘good’ heat effect going but I have totally failed. What on/off cycle do you use (e.g., what duty cycle or schedule)?

    Cheers!
     
  7. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    First, I mainly use it for saisons in the cooler part of the year. It's totally unscientific and based on general experience. My brew closet is in the basement and is pretty stable year-round (I finish saisons in the greenhouse in summer). Other beers that need to be a little warmer do ok with the heat generated by fermentation and a towel wrap to hold some heat in. When using the heating pad, I put a towel on the concrete floor under the carboy to lessen that heat sink. Closet temp is typically in the low 60's F, actually sometimes mid 60's in winter because the furnace is running. I always let the fermentation start cool, then use the heat pad after 2-3 days, starting with 75%off/25%on and step up from there (again covering the carboy with a towel to retain heat). For a stable temp of 77F I end up with about 67% on/33% off, with the pad on the high setting. The first time, I was overly cautious and it took about 3 days to get things where they needed to be. Looking back, I'd recommend trying it with a carboy of water first to get your particular environment and equipment dialed in. It might be harder if your fermentation area is subject to temperature shifts, e.g. an upstairs closet or spare bedroom, but with a reasonably stable temperature you should have a pretty good idea after 2 days or so. Lots of variables. For example, I'm lazy and make use of our abundance of towels. You might have an old down parka that works much better.

    Of course I'll have to start from scratch when my present heat pad dies...
     
  8. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    I do not think you have a drain pour situation here. I have used lager yeast at 66 degrees with good results. Taste will tell.
     
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  9. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    As others have said, this probably isn't a drain pour. It might be a little fruitier than you planned, but should still be drinkable, maybe even good.

    I don't know of any reason you couldn't re-use the yeast. I certainly don't control fermentation temperature for my lager yeast starters, and I've never experienced any problems with the yeast being conditioned to warmer temps.
     
  10. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I'll keep you guys posted, but I think it'll be a 4 or 5 months before I expect anything. In the meantime I'll wait for it to warm up a little outside and I'll keep the shot light out of the fridge.
     
  11. angrygrimace

    angrygrimace Initiate (0) Apr 11, 2011 California

    Sounds like what you really need is a dual stage or second temperature controller and a heat-wrap for the fermenter.

    That's not cheap, obviously, but what in homebrewing is?
     
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  12. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    Just to follow-up on the lager:

    It came out really good. I got it on tap a few weeks back. It's a touch sweet, but slightly under carbed. I'll give it a pass and it's still very drinkable. Patience paid off here, as it usually does in the homebrew world.

    I took some of the yeast from this batch and really nailed a Helles for the second batch on this strain. Since the first one came out good, I'm very excited for the next one.
     
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