lager head, bottle aged

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by GormBrewhouse, Feb 1, 2018.

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  1. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    so ive been looking at the perfict heads on @TheBeerery and after 5 weeks my bottle aged lager is showing similar heads. Does it take other home brewers this long to get super heads on their lagers/pilsners?
     
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  2. Bryan12345

    Bryan12345 Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2016 Texas

    Off the top of my head (bah ha ha! Pun intended!)...no.

    But then, head retention is farther down on my list of priorities, so maybe I just haven’t noticed.

    FWIW :slight_smile:
     
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  3. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Clarity and head on my lagers are similar at 5 weeks in kegs...the clarity is there almost right out the gate.
     
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  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I've noticed that tight foam and foam retention tend to increase with time. Possibly due to hydration of the CO2.

    Seems to be the case with ales, lagers, kegged, bottle conditioned, whatever.
     
  5. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Nope, I've gotten fluffy, dense heads that last the entire glass burst carbing with various lager and ales. It does take a few days or a week to saturate or whatever the CO2 to get a nice dense head, but it doesn't take weeks to get there.

    I don't notice any difference between my spunded, naturally carbonated pils vs. my burst carb, for example. No step mashing either, just plain old single infusion mashes. Head retention has never been any problem for me.

    Good brewing technique and clean/sanitary conditions (no residual oils) will really help that head retention.
     
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  6. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Been a while since I bottled but 4 weeks was always peak time for me.
     
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  7. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Basically, if you are doing it right, head formation and retention will happen. If you are having trouble getting a nice foam collar and you are an all grain brewer you likely have a flaw in your process.

    Good foam is a natural occurrence. Once you are fully carbonated no problem. Fully carbed can require a few weeks.
    Cheers.
     
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  8. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for the replys. When I make stouts, there is no problem getting good retention right away.

    I am still fairly new to lagers so here is what I have been doing, all responses welcome.

    10 lbs weyerman barke pills
    .5 carapills
    .5 L10

    Mash 60 minutes 146-149
    Sparge 170
    Boil 60 min
    Sazz, tetnang, or other hops 1 oz @ 60 and 10

    2 pkts dry lager yeast

    Ferment temp starting around 50 slowly ramping to 60-64

    In fermenter for 2 weeks then bottle with 4 oz Suger.
     
    #8 GormBrewhouse, Feb 1, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  9. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Personally, I would drop the 10L crystal malt and swap it with something like Munich instead, to keep it more “traditional”. Or something like Caramunich I.

    Carapils has been shown to actually hurt head retention, supposedly, so you may want to drop that out completely. Using just Pils and Munich/Caramunich would be just fine.

    Mash temp looks about right, although at the low end of that range (146-148) you may want to extend the mash time to 90min unless your checking your conversion. It works a bit slower down there, just to ensure you fully convert. From 148+ an hour should be fine.

    You don’t really need to ramp your fermentation temp, although quite a few people do (myself included, just did it now on my IPL). When I do, I give it at least 4-5 days at 48F before raising up. I have not been ramping at all lately, except my IPL now only because I want it up around 62-64F for dry hopping in the next day or two. Otherwise, I’d let it run at 48F until FG. If you pitch enough yeast (two packs for 5-gallon should be fine, especially rehydrated) diacetyl and whatever else is not an issue.

    Looks tasty!
     
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  10. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks, I have made it with Munich aswell and other grains so this weekend just Munich and perhaps some carahell unless that's also bad.
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Maybe. The studies I've read that suggest carapils is foam negative measured foam retention of pre-boil worts. The problem with that, as I see it, is that boiling denatures (various) proteins, changing their shapes and possibly their foam retention contributions. As I understand it, protein LTP1 (for example) gets better at foam retention when denatured.

    This made me wonder if anyone has studied various malts' foam retention contributions in beer, or at least in post-boil worts. I couldn't find anything on that. I even bought the "Foam" book. No joy.
     
  12. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Makes you wonder... I mean, the grain industry really isn't about "snake oil" products. Each malt really has its own flavor and characteristics. The fact both US and German malters offer these body and foam enhancing malts (Carapils, Carafoam, Chit?, etc...) would suggest that they probably do something beneficial to foam if they all claim it. I would also assume these malters have done studies at some point to prove the benefit, although it does seem that there is no evidence laying around anywhere it appears.
     
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  13. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    It's anecdotal evidence but every beer I make using carapils has improved head compared to ones where I don't. This ranges from styles like cream ale to a lager to an IPA. I haven't used it in a while and my head retention has suffered in my opinion. Will prolly go back soon.
     
  14. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I usually use flaked barley, in stouts for head retention and caripills, some times, in pales,IPAs and now lagers, but, will try this weekend to brew without.

    Another great thread. Thanks everybody.
     
  15. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    I have heard that rye malt, in small proportions, really helps with head formation/retention. I've never tried it myself, but it's something to consider.
     
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  16. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I have used flaked rye and it helps some , not like flaked barley
     
  17. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

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  18. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Surprised wheat malt has not been mentioned. Or I missed it.
    Wheat is high in protein and subsequently helps foam. Like wheat beer.

    Many brewers add a percentage, as I did. Until I figured out less is more.
    Cheers.
     
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  19. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Nice read. Won't be going back to carapils now
     
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