Lager starter from questionable yeast

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by scurvy311, Jul 17, 2013.

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  1. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    I have three vials of white labs 833. I may have the same issue As I did last summer where I used more beers free shipping and had yeast that, no doubt, sat in a hot truck for a few days before it got here to the deep south.

    I realize I am asking a question that is impossible to get exactly correct, but the pitching rate calculator requires a starting cell count so i can calculate the step. Given the fact that the yeast took about eight days to get to me, from Cali, it's been really hot, the three vials were ice pack wrapped, and that the best by date is August 10, what would be a ballpark estimate for the cell count for each vial? I know they have 100 billion at their peak but if I use 10 billion per vial, am I at least near the ball park? I would much rather rely on BA input then guess.
     
    #1 scurvy311, Jul 17, 2013
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I really don’t think there is any way to even guesstimate how many viable yeast cells are in your vials. The only ‘answer’ I have is to make a starter with them and propagate some yeast cells.

    Below is something I posted previously about my use of a Wyeast smack pack that was about a year old.

    “A Wyeast smack pack story. I attended the Bethlehem, PA Musikfest a number of years ago (August event). My LHBS has a ‘secondary’ store in Bethlehem (Keystone). I went there just to check out the place and have a quick conversation with the employees. As I was chatting to the dude behind the counter a second fellow was going through the Wyeast yeast packs. He interrupted the conversation and asked me if a brew Oktoberfest beers to which I replied yes. He handed me an out of date (over 6 months old) package of 2633 (Oktoberfest blend). I stuffed the pack into my wife’s fanny pack and we walked all day in 80+ degrees weather. I did put the pack into the refrigerator that evening. I brewed with that yeast many months later (January). The package took a long time to swell (several days) and I did make a starter. That Oktoberfest beer was the best batch I ever brewed (I brewed a dozen batches previously). Wyeast smack packs are freakin’ awesome!”

    Cheers!
     
    #2 JackHorzempa, Jul 17, 2013
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  3. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
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    I agree with JackH . . . make a starter and see what you get. You will know in a few days if they will respond. Then measure your yeast slurry quantity. This is where the experts admit they don't really know how to estimate cells/ml . . . but guidelines from Wyeast and White Labs point toward ~1 billion cells per ml (with the caveat there may be more). The Mr. Malty calculator "slurry-tab-pointer" varies from 1 - 4.5 billion per ml.

    The guidelines above actually pertain to yeast harvesting. Your vials are in some sort of middle ground - - - they aren't new, they have been stressed, but not re-used - - - but you have to start somewhere. Personally I would error in being conservative; if I wanted 100 billion cells I would try and grow 100 ml of slurry.
     
    #3 PortLargo, Jul 17, 2013
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  4. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Thanks. I'll start with 2L of 1.040 on a Stirplate and step up from there. Thanks for the guidelines PortLargo.
     
    #4 scurvy311, Jul 17, 2013
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