Lager Yeasts at Ale Temps - Experiences

I had bad experiences with SAF Lager 189 and W34/70, fermenting at 68 F too much acetaldehyde production, beer turned out acidic , I would not reccomend this method.

 

I'm curious about this question as well. I'd love to brew some lagers, but I don't have the means of temperature control right now.

 

Just kegged an IPL brewed with W34/70. It fermented 10 days at 65 degrees then was ramped down to 33 where it sat for another 12 days before being kegged. Tastes wonderful, no off flavors whatsoever.
FWIW the yeast was a 3rd generation slurry that had been in the fridge a month and I didn't make a starter.

 

Being a German beer style fan, I have been using WLP029 for lagers over the last couple years and have been extremely pleased with the results.

 

I have brewed 34/70 lots of times at 66 degrees with no off flavor's.Recently I brewed an Altbier with S189 at 60 degrees and it worked well. I would not be afraid to use this yeast at a higher temp. There is nothing to fear but beer its self!

 

I've likewise used W 34/70 around 65 and have not had any problems.

 

Did you find that this shortened your primary fermentation time or changed your normal lager fermentation schedule?

OP, very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it.

 

I have fermented warmish (~17C / ~62F) with W34/70 and it worked out ok. Wasn't great, but pretty neutral actually.

 

I have had problems with both these yeasts, too. However, in both cases, yeast experienced temperature fluctuation, i.e., I had temperature control problems, with temps starting low but getting too warm during fermentation. This is likely a different issue than setting out to ferment at a high temp.

I would not characterize the off flavors as acidic or acetaldehyde, but not clean. I struggled to name the off flavors, although I recently sampled the 34/70 batch and was reminded of celery seed. But that batch is over a year old, so that specific flavor may be more of an aging effect. Still, over the course of a year, I wasn't enamored by this beer and am ready to rid that keg of its contents. The S189 beer became a brett experiment that I lost interest in an dumped.

I also recently brewed a batch with S-23 that I managed to keep cold and still came out with plenty of weird esters. Dumped it. I would be reluctant to encourage this yeast with warmer temps.

Wow. I just realized that my last three dry yeast lagers were disasters.

 

I also had a bad experience with these two yeasts at ~68°. The beers had acetaldehyde, were thin, and void of character. Not acidic though.

The same wort was also fermented with WY2308 at lager temps and was delicious, just as a reference point.

 

http://brulosophy.com/2017/02/20/ye...-cool-vs-warm-in-a-lager-exbeeriment-results/

I thought this experiment was interesting and in line with what you are asking about.

 

Yes, some. I normally primary for around 14 days (could be 10 to 21, depending on gravity), diacetyl rest 3 days, then secondary. On this batch I just did a 14 day primary and then moved to secondary. Obvious skipped step is no diacetyl rest was needed. It likely could have been done earlier, too, but my notes show I did not check gravity until day 14. I recall airlock activity going by quickly.

 

That was a good read. Thank you! I pitch my lager yeast at 65-70 degrees then ferment at 54 degrees.

 

Forgot about the Baltic porter I am drinking right now, which turned out nicely. Used the Mangrove Jack California Lager yeast.

 

With the strains I use the beer comes out like a lager. Very clean. Years ago I used to brew a lot with WLP810. This is a fine yeast. I have done split batches with this yeast and WLP800 in a California Common and I prefer the clean taste of the lager yeast. I have also brewed this recipe with 34/70. The differences in taste from the steam beer yeast are the esters they throw. Similar as the difference between the steam yeast and WLP001. Hope I helped! Take care!

 

I do what I call warm lagers. BUT, that's a big but, I start them out cold and let half the fermentation happen (about 4-6 days) before I move them to a warmer area.

I have not noticed any warm fermentation off flavors doing it this way.

But I use WLP800 a lot and 34/70 a fair amount also and I have noticed warm fermentation off flavors in those beers if they got too warm at the start.

 

Did you have a chance to try our Pils, Helles, Dunkel, Schwarz, or Kellerbier? They all use lager yeast starting at 57 degrees and midway through fermentation they are allowed to rise to 62 degrees F. Imperial Organic's "Harvest" yeast is great for fermenting in the low 60's. It is the same yeast strain as Wyeast Munich Lager II, but available year round.