Lagered Ale

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by TNGabe, Dec 1, 2012.

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  1. TNGabe

    TNGabe Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2012 Tennessee

    Biere de Garde
    Kolsch /Alt
    What else?
     
  2. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
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  3. ghostly

    ghostly Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2011 New York

    Most Trappist ales.
     
  4. fmccormi

    fmccormi Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2010 California

    Duvel undergoes secondary in cooler temps, doesn't it?
     
  5. ESHBG

    ESHBG Pooh-Bah (2,099) Jul 30, 2011 Pennsylvania
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  6. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
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    We get into some controversy here through the use of "ale"
    Unilaterally and without proper reason ale has been misrepresented as a catch all for top fermented beer. Not all top fermented beer is ale.Kolsch for example is legally an "obergäriges lagerbier" , not an ale as it's German and ales are beers of British descent.I know I'm pissing into the wind because the calumny is seen everywhere.Perhaps because people don't bother checking facts and sources as it's easier to join the herd.I've even had people saying that it's the yeast which defines the beer!
     
  7. busternuggz

    busternuggz Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2008 California

    Interesting, never heard this before. So what's a better way to define lager then? By the longer, colder secondary fermentation?

    And aren't hefeweizens German ales? Or is that also due to a narrow definition?
     
  8. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Lots of North American ale styles - Canadian ales, sparkling ales, cream ales, golden ales, "bastard" ales - styles developed by ale brewers to compete with lager beer - are/were traditionally lagered for a time. And, of course, many other ales were long aged, and simultaneously dry hopped in many cases, in large casks/tanks before bottling/racking.
     
  9. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
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    The clue to lager is that it has been lagered! That's where the name came from. Originally lager would have been brewed with a top fermenting yeast but as bottom fermenting strains cope better with cool temperatures they became predominant.The result, not the cause, of lager brewing.So the Germans, wishing to be correct in these matters call Kolsch an obergäriges lagerbier.
    Germans simply didn't use the word "ale" , that was used in Great Britain as one of their types , confusingly the other was "beer" and included stout and porter.Ale brewers were different from beer brewers, had their own guilds and barrel sizes.Ale brewers didn't brew porters.
    That was then and things have moved on , ales and beers came closer together.But German top fermented beer has little in common with that from the UK except where the yeast settles.Countries which have been influenced by British brewing such as Belgium and the US use "ale".
    Some observers would say that the historic references are irrelevant. But it's a bit like nationality-it's not a matter of what you call yourself it's a matter of record, where you were born and where your parents were born.
    And let's face it, there's no need to define Kolsch as an ale. Why not simply call it a Kolsch?
     
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  10. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (712) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    Today, most beers go through a period of cold conditioning. It doesn’t make much sense any more to divide beers into top-fermenting and bottom-fermenting ("ale" and "lager" for the Americans), if it ever did. It’s only one of a number of factors that affect the flavour of beer.
     
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