Let's talk about "Lists."

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by HopBroker, Dec 28, 2015.

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  1. F2brewers

    F2brewers Maven (1,432) Mar 12, 2005 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    indeed they do. serial abusers exist.

    after a while, it's easy to spot.

    far more reports are rejected than resolved.
     
  2. dzyneguru

    dzyneguru Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2010 Minnesota

    That makes sense, thanks for the response.
     
  3. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Would everyone be OK with listing a single want, but then being able to list up to say 6 gots that you'd be willing to trade? By making people think a bit, this would provide much more clarity as to what the person is looking for (vs a list) and narrow down the gots. Any ratios would need to be included too.

    Having a clear rule around this would also result in less reports, less warnings and less hurt feels.
     
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  4. Desp59

    Desp59 Savant (1,052) Jun 23, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I personally think that will get messy. For example, I posted yesterday looking for a bottle of Double Shot and a single can of Old Man from Treehouse. That is two "wants" but they logically should be grouped together because they are from the same brewery. I didnt want to just trade for one... I wanted to get someone with both of them to minimize shipping and make it worthwhile. I would say limit to a specific brewery but sometimes people want a couple things from a geographic region and want them both to save shipping. If you can only list one but you want more than that it will waste everyone's time in PMs.

    However I agree that having a clear rule here is necessary. Right now I get posts deleted and then I look at the forums and tons of people are doing the same thing. "non-specific" applies to high percentage of the trade posts. I think that the more strict you make this the less people will post here though. The way I see it is the more gots you are able to list the better chance there is that someone will see something that they want and message you. It would suck to not be able to list something that the person wants and would get the trade done. I think 6 gots is too low... These people that post 100 bottles are crazy but 6 isnt enough to give someone a good idea of what you have.
     
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  5. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    @Desp59 You make a good point, however, if there's no reasonable limit to the lists ... it's basically just an auction and then we might as well just let people ISO:FT whatever they want, ignore complaints from users and let the best offers take the trades.
     
  6. Desp59

    Desp59 Savant (1,052) Jun 23, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I dont want auctions either. I hate that... Even when I did post huge lists I never auctioned. I appreciate you guys trying to address this but I dont want it to be so limiting that I am forced to trade somewhere else.

    How about limits wants to 2-3 from a "geographic area" which I understand would be difficult to police... But keep it within reason. Someone could be at HF and Tree House so it would be valid to ask for those together. But dont ask for HF and Jester King because that is unlikely. Or you could just say 2-3 wants period... The more logical you make them the better chance you have of getting your trade done. I just dont like the idea of 1 want because I very very rarely trade for a single bottle. It makes the "cost" per bottle of trading way too expensive.

    And give people enough bottles to list a good idea of what they have. 6 is too low in my opinion... Maybe 10-12? I think I could give some pretty good examples with ratios with 12 bottles to give people an idea of what I am saying. Since people love to report my posts I have been trying to follow what @F2brewers said and just keep it reasonable.
     
    Sabtos likes this.
  7. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    @Desp59 I think up to 3 (wants) and 12 (gots) is more than reasonable. And posts would need to list specific brands (not breweries or styles) and any ratios up front.
     
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  8. F2brewers

    F2brewers Maven (1,432) Mar 12, 2005 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    i agree with @Desp59 and @Todd

    we need some reasonable expectation for what's ok...but i'm also against a 100% hard limit too.

    i've had numerous conversations with traders and think somewhere in that 10-15 is fine...but as we get to 15-20, it's too much.

    likewise, listing 5-10 wants combined with 15 fts pushes the boundary too.

    people need to be mindful and respectful of the rules.
     
  9. Desp59

    Desp59 Savant (1,052) Jun 23, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    If you go through with this you will definitely need to give some examples. So you are saying you would only allow specific beer names to be posted? I see people post in bulk for IPAs so I will use that example. "NE IPAs" is obviously too broad and that doesnt work. I dont know if there is an issue with "Trillium IPAs" or something like that. If someone hasnt had any and they just want to try something new... But just "Trillium" is too broad because they make sours, stouts and IPAs. And obviously just "IPAs" isnt going to work either. And I think you need to make an exception for locals for locals trades also. That is how a lot of people get into trading and asking for "locals" is pretty general yet specific at the same time.

    And I just saw @F2brewers post also. I just dont know you can define reasonable without hard limits. My reasonable is different than your reasonable... And I am not sure the mods even have a consistent idea of what reasonable is. It is pretty confusing for a lot of traders right now. I dont love the idea of hard limits but I dont like my posts getting deleted and I dont know why.
     
  10. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    All of this makes me yearn for the days where our only rules were "You trade at your own risk. No buying or selling beer." We never got involved with trades. People just traded.

    Devil's Advocate: Who cares if someone wants to list a ton of beers? Who cares if they're looking for "Tree House"? Who cares if they want to negotiate ratios or hold out for the best offer? People will either trade with them or not. Why the hell should we care? These rules have created nothing but frustration amongst traders and mods.
     
    pmarlowe, JavaNoire, cfh64 and 4 others like this.
  11. fiedler84

    fiedler84 Zealot (722) Dec 23, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Agreed, you guys put in a lot of work - but there are way too many groups of traders. Whale hunters, Locals 4 Locals, People just wanting to try new styles. It's also getting to the point where there are too many rules. Me personally, I've been trading for a few years...I'd rather not trade 1 bottle at a time...I prefer to conduct trades where other people can hit multiple wants of mine. If Joe Smith in Boozman MT doesn't like that, tough cookies. He can move along.

    My .02. Seems like it's creating a lot of work for you guys. Appreciate all you've done.
     
    Todd likes this.
  12. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Locking this one down. @Jason and I discussed the input in this thread. Updates to follow.

    Thanks,
     
  13. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

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