Welcome to BeerAdvocate!

Looking to talk, rate or trade beer? Join today by creating your free account.

Dismiss Notice
Curious about recent updates to the site and app? Check the Announcements forum for updates.
Dismiss Notice
Love Belgian Beer?

Join us Sep 17 in Portland, Maine for Return of the Belgian Beer Fest, featuring hundreds of authentic Belgian beers and Belgian-inspired offerings.

Tickets + more: beeradvocate.com/belgian

Let's talk about trade winning and threadsh******.

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by whiskey, Mar 18, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. roon

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    What makes you think they are predators and prey? Why can't they just be people trading things? You have the "I need to win this trade" mentality. Its not about winning, its about mutually beneficial exchange...and the only 2 parties that can determine what that is are the involved parties. Your opinion doesn't matter, neither does what you perceive a beer to be valued at matter if you are not involved in the exchange.
     
  2. Pahn

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Posts:
    4,373
    Likes Received:
    6,337
    Location:
    New York
    one of the parties involved would have a different opinion if they had more information. being a friend to them would be giving them that information.

    what is difficult about this for you?
     
  3. stupac2

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Posts:
    4,179
    Likes Received:
    4,107
    Location:
    California
    ITT: Used car salesman defend their business practices.
     
  4. whiskey

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Posts:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Location:
    California
    Where did I ever give the impression that I need to win jack shit? This whole topic is about how I believe we should help others, not about me trying to win anything. You're a piece of work.
     
  5. roon

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I think the thing people have the hardest time with is understanding that value is subjective to the individual. People would rather take their opinion and apply it to everyone. "Hey, you could get more for that!"....what if someone doesn't want more for that? What if they want what they are trading for?

    It's not about wanting people to learn through the school of hard knocks...or wanting to trade an IPA for anything. Its about understanding that not everyone is trying to get a Black Tuesday...some people are just trying to get beer's that they can't get at home.

    Not trusting me because I hold a different opinion than you? LOL.
     
  6. roon

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    LOL - I don't even participate in the ISO/FT forum and don't plan to. BIF's are where it is at. Used car salesman? LOL.
     
  7. roon

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    You think beer has an intrinsic value outside of what someone paid for it. You think that value can lead to someone "losing" or "winning" based on the value they get back. You do have that mentality...it is a pre-req for holding the opinion that you do.

    The other position is that beer has the value that the people trading place on it. There is no intrinsic value....no "set price" for the beer other than the dollar's paid for it. That is the position I take, I leave it up to the parties involved to determine its value.
     
  8. roon

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    How do you know they would feel differently? Because you would? Your opinion is irrelevant...we have been over this.
     
  9. Pahn

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Posts:
    4,373
    Likes Received:
    6,337
    Location:
    New York
    you just don't want to be wrong. people have said outright that they wished they knew more after the fact. you don't understand this?

    of course you don't. "we've" been over this, ie it's been explained to you and you ignored it. hopefully you're enough of a joke to actually put this stuff into practice to avoid being wrong. i like performance piece jokes like that. well, being aware of them i guess. i wouldn't like it if i actually knew you.
     
  10. roon

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Its not about not wanting to be wrong lol. I just don't presume to know what people want. If they want my opinion they can ask for it. Otherwise....keep your nose on your own face. I guess it's just me though eh?
     
    JackCrow likes this.
  11. wingedeel

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Posts:
    124
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    Indiana
    There sure are a lot of people on this site lately with the handle "ignored member".
     
  12. stxSS07

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Posts:
    1,311
    Likes Received:
    2,467
    Location:
    Illinois
    Is no one going to tell AleWatcher that the case of the tub-shitter has been solved?
     
    MordorMongo likes this.
  13. ForkAndSpoonOp

    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    Posts:
    127
    Likes Received:
    294
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    ISO: Lamborghini Aventador FT: '95 Ford Windstar

    The Windstar seats more people than the Lambo, and gets far better gas mileage. Some people may even like the styling more. Plus, the Windstar isn't being made anymore, and it's from the first vintage. Seems fair to me.
     
    ThreeFishes, pk18 and CarolinaKevin like this.
  14. sandiego67

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Posts:
    999
    Likes Received:
    1,012
    Location:
    California
    Head threadshitter points out the the correct phrase is, "I couldn't care less". Carry on.
     
  15. MarshalHunahpu

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Posts:
    53
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Florida
    ^^
    whaa? :confused:
     
  16. MarshalHunahpu

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Posts:
    53
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Florida

    & its called negotiation. One doesn't have to label the exact trade in the title because each trader will obviously get as much from the other as they can until a happy medium is reached. The traders will negotiate until both of them are happy with the offer.

    Post what you have.
    Post what you want.
    Expand if needed.

    Class dismissed,

    cheers
     
  17. lucas1801

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Posts:
    1,730
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Post what you want to trade
    Post what you want in return
    Make the damn trade, if you decide to expand from there fine. If someone offers your ISO take it, or if you think it isn't enough post a different ISO. It isn't hard at all.
     
  18. RedBeeron

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Posts:
    615
    Likes Received:
    712
    Location:
    California
    First and foremost, as a guy that trades infrequently and considers himself a novice trader, I want to state very clearly that I'm not disagreeing with you and instead had some thoughts/observations I wanted to expound upon based on the sections in bold. I'm giving this disclaimer because I tend to ramble as I work my way towards whatever point I originally had nebulously formed and wanted to express.

    I'm no Levitation, so I dont know how many of the multitudes/most outspoken people are the same ones that threadshit on a "Beer X: Whats it going to take?" or "Whats the trade value of X", but those threads are a natural extension of the argument "if they want help they will ask". Anyone thats been around for a short period of time is going to see a lot of the same beers mentioned in the ISO:FT boards and will naturally be curious. Obviously, if all these people are 'ISO: Whatever The Beer of the Day/Week' is these beers have to be awesome, right? Or worse, for someone that sees the same beers coming up frequently enough that you recognize them over a couple weeks/months, obviously these beers have to be delicious and you absolutely MUST tick them.

    When I first joined this site on July 6th 2012 (threashit away, fellas!), it was actually easier for me to figure out if a posted trade was lopsided as I would see a sufficient amount of comments all amounting to either "you're probably going to have to add on" or "bm sent" depending on which way it swung (little to the left, in my case). Sure people could get a little overzealous in how they responded, but this is the Internet and a website for people enjoying a hobby that should be limited to those 21+. Hell, even the trolls are pretty tame.

    Between the removal of comments and the continued rise in popularity of Craft, new traders had no real way of figuring out whether or not they could get their hands on these beers that the community was hyping. Not in any overt way, but just in the nature of the ISO:FT boards. When huna comes out, people that have it are going to FT it and people that want are going to ISO. This will obviously happen with greatest frequency around the release date, which puts the beer on people's radar. New traders, wanting to try these beers, started posting unrealistic* ISO:FT's and got crickets (perhaps a genuinely informative BM on occaision, that was reacted to poorly based on how individuals react to what they likely feel is unsolicited criticism). Whoever posted the first Trade Value of X/Whats X Going to Take likely opened the floodgates, giving new traders an outlet to ask the questions that the old ISO:FT forums, in an at times unnecessarily hostile way, would have been able to address.

    The way things are now, how are you going to know the ratio of BTU's:KHU's? Is Bruery's Griffon Bruxellois not trading at all because there were questions regarding carbonation or because its still underhyped vs Sour in the Rye with Peaches, which has several ISO's? Really, what does it take to land a Huna? Smaller quantity 'loons? BT/CR? Whats my bottle of Wanderer, or Peche 'n Brett, or CS WWB B1 worth? Which of these beers I really want to try do I have the best chance at landing? The new common response is "Why dont you post an ISO:FT", but with no functioning feedback system in place (this is nothing but anecdotal comparison, but it seemed like there was a greater number of comments/post in the old ISO:FT than the new) there's going to be spillover into the Trading:General Help forum as these people are, ask you so succinctly mentioned asking for help.

    I dont even know how to tl;dr this.
     
    mattafett likes this.
  19. Pahn

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Posts:
    4,373
    Likes Received:
    6,337
    Location:
    New York
    not obvious.
     
    OtisCampbell likes this.
  20. OakedCanuck

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Posts:
    375
    Likes Received:
    602
    Location:
    Washington
    TL, DR

    You need help, Twenty Twelver.

    ;)
     
    RedBeeron likes this.
  21. RedBeeron

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Posts:
    615
    Likes Received:
    712
    Location:
    California
    's cool bro, my like count is almost as high as yours ;)

    Edit: where's the wants list in your profile so I can super 2012 it up and offer you over 9000 lowball trades? You're killing me here, smalls.
     
    OakedCanuck likes this.
  22. Krumb

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Posts:
    393
    Likes Received:
    290
    Location:
    Texas
    Curious post...

    You should link to those posts i pooped on. I was un aware of the "head" title you've ordained me with.

    (Millerbuffoon doesn't count - he deserves it)
     
  23. nanobrew

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Posts:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Location:
    California

    The problem with your point of view is you are the one making assumptions. You are assuming the person involved in the "lop sided trade" is happy with it and thinks he is getting the best beer he wants with it. No one is saying someone should be forced into trading for rarity or at a certain "beer value". There are numerous trades where a vet will over trade just to get something done, and you see people saying "wow nice offer" or "what a good guy".

    The issue most people are talking about is making sure everyone has the appropriate information. If an uninformed trader is trading something rare for some shelf stuff then they may care to know about it. If they do know they could land other beers with it but do not care then fine, trade away. More information is never a problem. The trader can choose what to do, but knowing their options is always beneficial to them.
     
    whiskey, MikeTen, stupac2 and 2 others like this.
  24. roon

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I think it is safe to say that both sides make assumptions. One side assumes that they have information that is relevant to the discussion and chooses to share it. The other side assumes that both sides have done their research and are making a trade that they both feel is best for them. If I am asked my opinion about a trade, I will certainly share it....I am not however going to go around sticking my nose into peoples threads telling them what they could or could not get for that beer. I don't value my opinion so highly that I feel the need to force it on people without being asked to share it. Different strokes though I suppose.
     
  25. pjl44

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Posts:
    410
    Likes Received:
    440
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I read this as:

    "A trade with me will start with an exhausting BM exchange and end with a light box on your porch."
     
  26. MikeTen

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Posts:
    357
    Likes Received:
    574
    Location:
    California
    This. People who smack their lips and rub their hands at the prospect of doing multiple rounds of negotiation over $40 are, simply put, retarded. They're annoying to interact with in any walk of life, and especially so through the internet. Beer trading really doesn't need that much back and forth.
     
    Pahn and Photekut like this.
  27. MarshalHunahpu

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Posts:
    53
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Florida
    Lol buncha beer snobs. Seems as if some of you clowns would complain even if someone sent you a free package.Trading is nowhere near as extensive as most of these ridiculous arguments.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  • About Us

    Your go-to website for beer (since 1996), publishers of BeerAdvocate magazine (since 2006) and hosts of world-class beer events (since 2003). Respect Beer.
  • Return of the Belgian Beer Fest

    BeerAdvocate Brings its All-Belgian Fest to Portland, Maine on September 17, 2016. Tickets are on sale now.

    Learn More
  • Get the Mag

    Become a BeerAdvocate magazine print subscriber today.

    Subscribe