Location, location, location

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Orca, Mar 30, 2015.

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  1. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I haven't been to a lot of breweries, but one thing I've noticed about the ones I have visited is that most of them are located in pretty obscure, nondescript places, and a lot of them are also pretty no-frills affairs (old warehouses etc.). This could be a regional thing, not sure, but here are a few examples:
    • Reuben's Brews (Seattle) is in a semi-industrial area across from Bardahl HQ (a big yellow warehouse)
    • Hill Farmstead (haven't been there) is apparently about as remote as you can get, out in rural northern Vermont
    • Holy Mountain (Seattle) is also in a semi-industrial area, just 20 feet from the railroad tracks (w/ BNSF trains rumbling by every few minutes)
    • Lost Abbey is basically in a warehouse in an office park in the San Diego suburbs
    I could go on, but my point is that, unlike other similar destinations like restaurants or wineries, it seems like breweries often reject the notion that location is everything for a business. There are probably a lot of exceptions to this, but in a lot of cases they seem to take the position that "if we build it, they will come"; and in a lot of cases, they're right. But, especially for new breweries that don't even package their product yet, this could be a pretty risky approach.

    Now, a lot of this is probably about the economics of starting a brewery, and you have to build where land is relatively cheap. You also can't be in a 100% retail district, what with all the trucks coming and going bringing in ingredients and taking away beer. But I also started thinking that maybe breweries can get away with this (where wineries and restaurants can't) specifically because they are breweries—often considered kind of a black sheep. Maybe there's a certain "cool" factor associate with being located on the wrong side of the tracks, or in a more industrial setting.

    Anyway. Interested to hear other people's thoughts and experiences about breweries they've visited and whether they fit this mold. I have been wrong before.

    Cheers!
     
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  2. Sweffin

    Sweffin Pooh-Bah (1,784) Jun 25, 2013 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've noticed this in Wisconsin - a lot of the craft breweries (Central Waters, New Glarus, O'so, Black Husky just to name a few) are pretty removed.
     
  3. lordofthemark

    lordofthemark Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2015 Virginia

    Around here the brewpubs ( right proper, bluejacket, capital city, mad fix etc )are in the hippest/nicest areas, and the production breweries (Port City, Atlas, etc) are in industrial areas which is not surprising since they are industrial enterprises, despite their tap rooms.
     
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  4. Benish

    Benish Pooh-Bah (2,446) Mar 13, 2013 Utah
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah I've always wondered why. Many of the breweries I visited were in industrial parks. They include Uinta Brewing, Central Waters, Societe Brewing (and they don't bottle). But there are breweries that are not in industrial parks and their buildings are a majestic masterpiece. This includes New Glarus, where it gives you that WWII era European feel when you visit.
     
  5. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    Deschutes... picturesque Bend, right by the river, right by the touristy & local area for events, shopping, restaurants. Man I love that place.
     
  6. ChangSing

    ChangSing Zealot (640) May 5, 2013 Illinois
    Trader

    every new brewery around chicago is in some form of an industrial park removed from a city center (at least all the ones i've been to). makes sense though given that they need places with 20+ ft ceiling for tanks and i'm sure it's much cheaper than trying to set up shop in a downtown.
     
  7. donspublic

    donspublic Grand Pooh-Bah (3,552) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think that most of it is due to cost. Most of the breweries that have opened up in Houston are in a semi industrial area. My guess is that the rent is cheaper and it is simpler to wedge yourself into existing construction and usually there are off the main grid so shipping isn't a big pain in the ass. Wineries on the other hand are usually locate close to the crop to reduce the price of hauling the grapes
     
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  8. therackman

    therackman Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2009 Oregon

    Jester King is 45 min outside of Austin and a great example of if you build it, they will come. Many wineries are the same way.
     
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    In some cities production breweries are viewed as a manufacturer, so zoning puts them in a manufacturing area. Brewpubs are restaurants that also make beer, so those go into entertainment districts.

    Some wineries that buy thegrapes are in industrial spaces. Vintners that have fields of vines are more rural, some remote.
     
  10. chinabeergeek

    chinabeergeek Pooh-Bah (1,837) Aug 10, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    not so much "black sheep" as simply the fact that beer has very transportable ingredients, and the final product doesn't necessarily have to be consumed on site. i like the analogy (i believe it's garrett oliver's) that winemakers are more like farmers, and brewers are more like chefs and bakers - EXCEPT for the fact that in modern society the final product is also transportable and semi-durable (or at least moreso than bread and cake). a restaurant serves food that in theory is transportable, but good ones also sell a dining experience, which isn't very mobile (i guess this is where food trucks come in :wink: ). wineries are culturally expected to be more tied to the land, although this has changed in the last 20 or so years as well.

    unless we're talking about brewpubs that aren't also production breweries, and therefore depend on on-site revenue, a brewer is a manufacturer.

    EDIT - lol, what @hopfenunmaltz said
     
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  11. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hadn't thought of the zoning angle, duh. Looking at it through that prism, it all makes a lot more sense.
     
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  12. deford

    deford Pooh-Bah (1,559) Nov 11, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Maybe something to to with the rebellious nature of craft beer...non-conforming to expected social behaviors....beards weren't hip until we made them hip.
     
  13. wsd627

    wsd627 Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2013 Vermont

    I work in food and I've noticed by dealing with brewers and wine people that brewers are just FAR more down to earth, fun, and are concerned about just producing the best product they can compared to restaurants and wine makers who in my experiences with them care a lot about appearances and social status.
     
  14. colinize

    colinize Initiate (0) Mar 26, 2012 Massachusetts

    Lots of times it's zoning, as previously stated. But, it's also due to the fact that brewing - particularly on the production scale - is a capital intensive operation, so at least for awhile, margins and cash flow are tight. Those kinds of locations help to reduce overhead costs, which go a long way towards making many of these operations sustainable.
     
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  15. TreeBear

    TreeBear Initiate (0) May 29, 2014 Oregon

    I can's speak for the rest of the country but in Portland breweries aren't the only ones to utilize a warehouse space. Lots of restaurants and coffee roasters are using the raw exposed wood look that warehouses provide to make some very popular places. I don't see breweries doing anything other than following the trend. On the other hand you have the picturesque breweries (Logsdon, Solera, Ale Apothecary) that appeal to the sense of adventure in most PNWers and locate their breweries in fantastic natural locations.
     
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  16. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I thought of Logsdon and Ale Apothecary too, but I believe both of these locations are actually closed to the public. Although I guess Logsdon now has a tasting room in Hood River.
     
  17. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I doubt most breweries are conceived of as "destinations."
     
  18. TreeBear

    TreeBear Initiate (0) May 29, 2014 Oregon

    Logsdon isn't the greatest example anymore. Ale Apothecary is open by appointment and in my experiences Paul is very open and willing to make it work. However once again its going to be a mute point once their taproom in Bend opens. However breweries such as Solera in Parkdale, OR, Thunder Island in Cascade Locks, and Backwoods in Carson, WA are between 30 mins-1 hour away from any real populated area. However these breweries get a draw from their scenery. Is that the reason they set up in those areas I couldnt tell you. I know for Thunder Island and Backwoods the brewers are from the area. However I think that the scenery is a reason to put a brewery in a scenic location.
     
  19. Beersnake

    Beersnake Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,884) Aug 17, 2013 California
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Best brewery for me was Rockmill in Lancaster, OH. Beautiful property and great atmosphere inside. Felt like a nice restaurant. Stone is pretty awesome as well. Most others seem to be pretty basic.
     
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  20. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I don't know about New York, but here almost every brewery has at least a tasting room if not a full brewpub (can't really think of any that don't actually). So I think some consideration would go into location, environment etc.
     
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