Looking for help in utilizing new hops.

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by One1Asterisk, Jul 7, 2015.

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  1. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    I've recently entered a homebrew competition where you buy a kit and it comes with all of the necessary ingredients to make your potentially award-winning beer. The goal is to make an all-grain American IPA. I've just got my feet wet in the brewing world (4 successful batches, all the same beer), and this kit throws a huge number of new ingredients and techniques my way. As far as the malt bill goes, I think I've got a decent start worked out. The hops, on the other hand, are unfamiliar. The only one in the list of 7 I have used is Citra. Also included are:

    -El Dorado
    -Calypso
    -Lemon Drop
    -Eureka!
    -Azacca
    -Equinox

    We also have to use a syringe filled with HopShot extract at 60 min, adding an instant 30 IBU right at the start. I wanted to see if anyone on the forums here have used any of these hops, and if so, how they really make your beer taste/feel/behave. Do any of these work especially well together? Stuff only experience will tell. I have some vague notes from the growers of what I should be smelling and looking for, but this isn't always what everyone else smells. A few of the hops took a lot of hunting to find relatively small bits of information for. I have another month before I actually have to brew this beer and want to be as far ahead of the curve as possible, any help or insight is quite appreciated!
     
  2. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    If you're brewing from a kit, and have to use a HopShot to bitter, I don't think that how you structure your hopbill is going to be the deciding factor in a win. Water Profile, mash temp, yeast health/pitch rate, and fermentation temp are going to be what matters.
     
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  3. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    I've got the equipment to keep those values in check, though the mash may suffer a little as I've never done an all-grain batch. I know I won't be able to fly-sparge efficiently, so I'll stick to batch-sparging. Water will be store-bought spring water, it's nice to have zephyrhills so close by. That profile works super well with hoppy beers, and the yeast seem to like its mineral content too. Yeast will be lively (smack-pack) and pitch-rate from a single pouch will be perfect for the batch size I intend to make. The biggest variables left, and those which I know the least about, are the new hops and what combination of them will provide the best flavor. I'm considering hop bursting, but I'm not sure. I'm equally worried leaving hops out as I am putting them all in. My current build includes no additions earlier than 10 minutes, with the exception of the HopShot. Hopping so far includes Citra, Azacca, El Dorado, Calypso, and a final shot of Eureka! at FO. Dry hopping will include Citra, Equinox, and Lemon Drop. This is all only on paper, as I don't know what these hops smell like just yet. I'm merely going on what the farmers say about them, but I want to scrounge up some personal experiences from BAs!
     
  4. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I can't help you with the hop choices because I'm like you and don't have that knowledge to know which ones, and how much of each. However, I do suggest that you brew your IPA early enough to be able to give your beer at least two weeks to condition in the bottle. I'm one of those people who believe that hop flavors need that extra conditioning time to be able to mature.
     
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  5. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Entering a competition for all grain when it's going to be your first all grain batch seems like a bold move. For an IPA mash ph generally plays a big role and using store bought water you don't know anything about the water profile. Maybe it worked well with extract but doing the mash yourself will be a bit different. Azacca and Equinox are both great hops so I would use those two for sure. I would stick with two or 3 hops. Use those two hops 50/50 for dry hopping. I would probably add calyapso as my 3rd hop. Personally not much of a fan of lemon or dorado. I also don't think those flavors will blend as well, too much lemon character.

    Good luck.
     
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  6. Buck89

    Buck89 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,782) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    With the HopShot extract, I recommend first warming the syringe in your pocket or somewhere else. I then add it slowly, a few drops at a time, into a brewing spoon half-full of boiling wort over the boil kettle and let it dissolve in the spoon first. Otherwise, you might get undissolved drops on the side of your kettle.
     
  7. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Regarding hop flavor/aroma . . . this may be personal. Example: I don't care for Azaaca but love El Dorado, just the opposite of advice given above. If really serious about what to expect you can do a test run. Drop a few pellets of each hop in an Amstel Light (or any generic lager), wait five days, and taste/smell the results. You can mix/match pours to see how they play together. Here's a detailed approach:
    http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/03/dry-hopped-bud-light.html
    The caveat here is you must have a good method to re-seal your hops prior to your brew day. I would be reluctant to use more than three different varieties.

    Hop Extract works pretty easily, expect little to no problems here. Late additions/whirlpooling is a complex arrangement. Here's a place to start: http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php
    Also, lots of good info on this board, search for "whirlpooling, late/flame out additions" on this forum to see other's technique. Temp considerations for FO additions vary a lot with different brewers and their equipment. No way to nail this without some trail-error.

    Finally, using untreated Zepherhills water will put you at a disadvantage. Here's the mineral content:
    http://www.nestle-watersna.com/asset-library/documents/zh_bwqr.pdf
    If this report is accurate (it's dated 2013), this is woefully inadequate for an IPA. It's generally accepted that award winning brewers have treated their water. Water analysis is probably as complex as anything you may do in brewing. You could write a book about how to treat water to favor different styles (which I believe someone has done). I don't mean to be discouraging, but this is an area which can take a lot of time/effort if you want spectacular results.
     
    GetMeAnIPA and One1Asterisk like this.
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Perhaps the disconnect here is that @One1Asterisk has used this water for extract beers, which brings along the minerals from the extract mash in addition to the water being added. But All Grain is a new ballgame.
     
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  9. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Could you post your BA APA IPA water profile from Brewcipher (still can't get the drop-down menus to work in my Google Sheets) to give him a good target.

    Err . . . never mind . . . just found the link that discusses this at length:
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/water-profile-suggestions-for-juicy-fruity-ipa.305797/
     
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  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Hmmm... I believe @jbakajust1 uses BrewCipher in Google Sheets and the only thing that doesn't work for him are the macros. Maybe you could compare notes. My first guess would be maybe one of you started with the .xls download and the other started with the .xlsm download.

    OP: Sorry for the hijack. Water profile for an IPA depends somewhat on what you want to achieve. But the link @PortLargo provided has the IPA profile he mentioned, and some others, along with some discussion about what qualities they emphasize.
     
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  11. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    True. Everything works for me except the scale up/down.
     
  12. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    For the OP, I, personally, do not like Calypso. It tastes like sucking on used tea bags.
     
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  13. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    I definitely agree here, I find the best flavors come out in the second week.

    This is not something I considered, thank you!
     
  14. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    This is extremely helpful, thank you. I always figured store-bought spring water was better, as my tap water is completely garbage. I will absolutely be trying the idea of dropping some pellets into a lighter beer and seeing what happens. I can re-seal the hop bags with a food-saver so they're oxygen free and toss them in the freezer until my brew day. The rest of my hops just arrived today, so I think I'll start that experiment now and brew in a week after I go through and digest all of this info.
     
  15. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    It did smell pretty funky when I opened the bag.
     
  16. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    I probably shouldn't have sounded so sure in my water selection. I have much reading to do!
     
  17. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I've used Lemon Drop, El Dorado and Calypso in the same beer with good results. Lemon, cherry and green apple flavors.

    If you have to use all of the seven hops you listed, the flavor will be difficult to predict.
     
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  18. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    The only requirement is the HopShot, I can use any combination of the rest of the hops. It should be noted, I only have one ounce of each variety to work with. With this in mind, I'm doing a 2.5gal batch to stretch what these and my grains can do.
     
  19. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    If that's the case, I'll bet most people will use Citra. It's a tasty hop, but sometimes being different gets you noticed.
     
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  20. One1Asterisk

    One1Asterisk Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2014 Florida

    As far as water treatment goes, how much would 5.2 pH stabilizer help me out? Would that count as a water salt? I'm not a hundred percent sure what it's made up of, but considering the addition of certain minerals changes the pH balance of your brew water, it has to consist of at least something similar.
     
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