A buddy and I recent lost a sour we had been aging in plastic. We included wood chips in the plastic, though we soaked them in vodka overnight, which has always worked in the past. It had been sitting in plastic for 10 months. The infection appeared to be sitting on the top and not in solution. We had a sour previously that sat in plastic for 3 months then went to glass. Any ideas on why this one may have been lost? How long do you think is appropriate for plastic to allow O2 in and let the brett does its thing? Do you think the oak chips should have been removed at an earlier time? Thanks in advance
I would only age the beer in glass for one. The rubber bung in a glass carboy allows a small amount of air through, similar to that of an oak barrel. Plastic has way more permeability and allows for much more O2 to pass through. From that, you can get oxidation issues (acetic acid). There are a few articles on this, you should check them out. Also "Wild Brews" has a great chapter explaining this. More importantly, once your beer is in a container (after primary, primary should last no more than two weeks), DON'T MOVE IT. The infection you see is called a pellicle, it is the protective "cap" for the Brett. Don't mess with this, this is the indicator that your beer is working, this pellicle can hang out for more than a year, if left undisturbed and in a stable environment (i.e.: No vibrations/movement, temperature swings, light). I would also include the wood chips at secondary, I would boil them in water for 10 minutes rather than soaking them in vodka, Brett can live in wood and I don't know how the vodka could affect the wood for the Brett. What type of beer were you making, what were the gravities, how warm/cold are you fermenting your beers at? What was your grain bill, how much hops/what type of hops did you use? What primary yeast did you use, what type of brett? What do mean by lost? What flavors are you noticing? Massage me and let me know.
To further Old Penguin Hunter's thoughts: Plastic is good for getting a beer started on souring precisely because it lets more O2 in. Jamil talks about making flander's beers in plastic, as does Steve Paitz in the BYO lambic article. What happens in plastic as noted above is that more air makes it into your beer faster. This changes the fermentation characteristics of the brett and unleashes the acetic acid producing bacteria. Acid is sour but these organisms can tear through a beer eating sugar, metabolizing alcohol, etc and leaving you with vinegar. So it's a balancing act how much time you leave it in plastic, how much vinegar flavor you want, and what style you are working on. If the beer is good other than being too sour, I.E. you really like it except it's just too sour for your friends, consider blending.
I concur with Donerik, blend it if it is too sour! However, does Brett produce acid? I thought pediococcus and lactobacillius only produce the acid, Brett just gives you the notion that it does by drying out the beer, right?
Actually, the pellicle is only there as a protective layer from the Brett to shield the beer from any O2, if you are taking a sample and break the pellicle, don't worry about it because it will reform over time. Also, if you don't see a pellicle that doesn't mean the brett is inactive, only that there isn't as much O2 in the head space to require a pellicle. Chad Yacobson of Crooked Stave did a really great presentation on 100% Brett fermentation:
" The infection you see is called a pellicle, it is the protective "cap" for the Brett. Don't mess with this, this is the indicator that your beer is working" Ummm....nope?
Ah...I see. OK, I've always assumed/read that the pellicle forms as a protective layer or barrier for O2. I always thought it formed in some way or another, and that you shouldn't muck with your beer until it disappears. Now this (not messing with the beer until the pellicle drops) I've only read about in the traditional brewing of lambics and such. I believe it is "Brewing Traditional Styles" or "Wild Brews" where this is stated, I know that Master Brewer of Cantillon (Jean Roy? I think) Doesn't move the beers into bottles until they loose their "sickness" which means the pellicle needs to drop and the ropy-weird pediococcus needs to go away. But I guess your right on the pellicle not always being there (and as an indicator that the beer is working) especially in the absence of oxygen, we (home/craft brewers for the most part) probably brew beers in more of an anaerobic environment than traditional Geuze/lambic producers as they have been doing it for generations. That's a cool video, Crooked Stave makes some good shit!
What do you mean it's lost? Because there's a pellicle? That happens in sour beers... This whole thread makes no sense at all.
