Low Alcohol Beer as a 'Style'

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by PapaGoose03, Nov 27, 2021.

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  1. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Something to consider:

    Yes, Low Alcohol Beer is already listed as a style, but really it's a feature of the beers that fall into this category, but there may need to be a sub-category that better defines these beers, such as Low Alcohol Beer - IPA; or Low Alcohol Beer - Stout, etc.

    My reasoning is that I recently started investigating NA beers on the Athletic Brewing page https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/52867/ and was unable to determine a 'style' since all of the beers are listed as Low Alcohol Beer in the style column. Yes, some beers list a style in the name column as part of the beer's name, but some don't have that. So, either a sub-style needs to be created for the major 'styles' of when one of these beers is submitted as a new entry, or if it doesn't list a 'style' as part of the beer's name, the mods should return it to the person submitting the beer and ask that a style name be included.

    Just my 2-cents.
     
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    As the segment has grown in recent years, it probably make sense to get rid of the Low Alcohol "style" and start entering beers under their base style.
     
  3. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    And possibly being able to add some kind of “tag” to the style for low-alcohol, NA, or gluten-free?
     
  4. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    As I just posted in Discord:

    Tagging beers would be very useful, but it's a massive project that would require the build out of a tagging system, search system overhaul, and a new moderation system to handle adding, editing, reporting, deleting, merging, etc. tags. Not feasible on our end right now, and especially if the BeerAdvocate and Untappd beer databases are eventually one.

    Untappd has a tagging system, but it's for check-ins only I believe.

    That said, it would be very useful and a case could be made to add it one day.
     
  5. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    A NA or low-alcohol stout is both a low-alcohol beer and a stout, but if picking between one or the other for classification, I think it makes sense to view "low-alcohol" as the greater of the two in the hierarchy because brewers, stores, and consumers would tend to do the same. I would think that most people would want a NA beer and possibly choose a NA stout... rather than want a stout and possibly choose a NA version. Stores are more likely to organize their shelves that way as well - grouping all NA beers together rather than putting a NA stout with other stouts.

    If NA beers on BA were dispersed throughout the other style categories here, then someone browsing on BA for NA beers would have to go to all of the various styles here and dig around rather than just going to a "low alcohol" section. Since beers w/o a listed ABV on BA show up as lower in an ABV sort, finding a NA beer in a given category would be difficult. Figuring out what a particular Athletic beer is like on Athletic's BA beer list by looking at its "notes" field is the lesser of two evils IMO.
     
  6. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think it definitely makes sense to have an NA style, and if needed add substyles to that. Something like;

    NA beer - pale ale
    NA beer - stout
    NA beer - pale lager
    Etc...

    As @zid described, this is more in line with the way consumers tend to interact with NA options. The characteristic that drives interest is the lack of alcohol, the other sensory characteristics that typically define styles are secondary in that case
     
  7. cyclonece09

    cyclonece09 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,559) Aug 5, 2008 Wisconsin
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I agree, we need to keep the Low Alcohol "style" as it is the best way to sort them how the market does, and within the current BA system without requiring a full rewrite. However, as it has proliferated from Sharps and O'Douls, we need to add substyles. How many and how to reclassify the current ones, that is probably a huge project for some person(s) on the mod team.
     
  8. gatornation

    gatornation Grand High Pooh-Bah (10,388) Apr 18, 2007 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Its a growing category for sure , Was in Total wine they have an 8 ft section now and is grouped by brewer/company not style. So to your point which i agree with ,just a NA category for now is fine IMO.
     
  9. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    I'm leaning toward no change for now, as we can't accommodate sub-styles or tagging at this time.
     
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  10. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    What about just doing the NA style the same way styles like Bock are currently handled in the database?
     
  11. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Unless we greatly consolidate them, this could result in dozens of Low Alcohol styles.
     
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  12. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ya I thought about that, but even a severe consolidation could be helpful.

    NA beer - pale ale
    NA beer - stout/porter
    NA beer - pale lager

    That would give it another little layer to filter by general taste.
     
    Rug and PapaGoose03 like this.
  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    How about all of these beers be incorporated into the standard styles but keep some sort of 'marker' for all beers that currently carry the low alcohol designation. Then remove the low alcohol as a choice in the style list when a new beer is being added. That forces everyone to choose the beer's real designated style.

    When a member adds a new low alcohol beer, the abv is likely known for a specialty beer such as a low alcohol product so that field will likely always have data (not blank) for new additions.

    On the Beer Styles page, low alcohol can continue to be listed. When anyone clicks on it a definition is displayed like all other styles that explains that all beers less than 5% are included in this category. Then below that definition is a list that @Todd codes that uses abv to create the database, but is then arranged in the list alphabetically by style as the primary sort, and abv as the secondary sort.

    Since there are a gazillion beers in the total beer database, any beer with a blank abv field has to be ignored when creating the list UNLESS the 'marker' that I mentioned above for a beer in the current low alcohol style is also blank in that abv field. It can then be included in the list and shown at the bottom in its appropriate style section as blank. The user then decides how to interpret the blank.

    The only problem that I see with doing this is identifying every beer's true style to be able to incorporate it into the style where it needs to be. Many of the current low alcohol beers mention a true style as part of the beer's name to be added to that particular style in the database. But how many don't do that, and is that a forbidding project to undertake manually? (Can a code be written to flag the beer names that include a style name and then group them accordingly?)

    Thoughts?
     
  14. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    This would require a form of tagging, which isn't an option right now.
     
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
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