Low OG

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Barhoppin13, Sep 15, 2014.

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  1. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    I did my first all grain batch sparge tonight with the mash tun I built.
    It seems the mash tun worked great. Held the temp within a few degrees. No blockage.
    Preboil was 1.010, post was 1.021. Post was supposed to be around 1.050!
    I did take a little more wort out of the mash tun, and post boil to ferment than my software was set at...
    What should I look for on my next batch to get these numbers closer? I felt like I was doing all the right things.
     
  2. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Make sure your grain is properly crushed
    If possible, make sure your pH is in the proper range during the mash
    Take the following measurements
    - total grain weight
    - strike water volume / temperature
    - mash temperature/ length
    - volume of first runnings collected in boil kettle
    - sparge water volume / temperature
    - volume of second runnings collected in boil kettle
    - preboil volume (combo of 1st and 2nd runnings collected volume)
    - preboil gravity
    - boil length
    - post boil volume (as soon as the flame is turned off)
    - post boil gravity
    - batch size (volume that makes it into the fermenter)

    With those measurements, you should be able (and we can help you) to generate all of the system numbers you need to dial in your system profile in your brewing software

    QUESTION: What temperature was your wort when you took your pre boil and post boil gravity readings with your hydrometer? Did you correct for that?
     
    andys_war_hall and Basoos1 like this.
  3. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    That's not quite enough information.

    What was the recipe?
    What was your mash pH, and how did you determine it?
    What were your pre and post-boil volumes?
    How did you conduct the sparge?
    How and when did you take your measurements?
    How was the crush on the grain?
     
  4. Ilanko

    Ilanko Initiate (0) Aug 3, 2012 New York

    Please post your recipe and describe your equipment and mashing / sparge method.
    in any case use some brewing software, it will give you guide line o where you are.
     
  5. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    I'll do that next run for sure.
    I can answer 80% of those now though...
    I'm brewing all grain full boil, 1 gallon

    Strike water @ 1 gal
    Total grain @ 2.1lbs
    First run vol. .75 gal
    Sparge volume @ 2 gal
    2nd running @ 1.25gal but I left another .5 gal in the tun
    Total from 1&2 @ 2 gal
    Preboil gravity @ 1.010 at 65 degrees
    75 min boil (was supposed to be 60min but I extended to 75 to get wort to 1.25 gal)
    Post boil vol @ 1.25
    Post Gravity @ 1.021 @ 65 degrees
    Batch size @ 1.25 for trub loss for one gal total @ secondary
     
  6. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Receipe was a simple Hefeweizen scaled from a 5 gallon recipe
    I added ph 5.2 powder at beginning of mash since I don't have a ph reader yet
    My LHBS did my grain crush and it looked good to me
    Batch sparge:
    Added 1 gallon of 170 degree strike water to 3 gallon mash tun, then added 2.1 lbs of grain and stirred, mash settled at 154degrees
    Waited 50 minutes, added 1 qt @ 170 degrees, waited 10 minutes for settle then vorlofed.
    Drained wort, added sparge water @ 170 degrees, waited 15 minutes after stirring well, vorlofed again and drained secondary wort.
    Boiled 60 min with hop additions only @ 60 min.
    Cooled to 65 degrees in ice bath
     
  7. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    I use ibrewmaster
     
  8. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Grain was based on 10.5lbs, scaled to 2.1lbs for 1 gallon batch.
     
  9. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    5.2 powder is basically bollocks, and you probably had a lot of wheat in there. Wheat will raise the pH of the mash, considerably. That could have been a considerable contributing factor.
     
    Tebuken likes this.
  10. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    Did you calibrate your thermometer?
     
  11. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Thermometer reads the right temp
    I will look into what is needed to get my ph more consistent
     
  12. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Also, I use bottled water not tap water for my brew
     
  13. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    OK I ran your numbers through beersmith 2.0 and came up with the following observations:

    your mash extraction efficiency was at around 39.4%
    your batch efficiency was at around 26%

    Again, when you measured your pre boil and post boil gravity with your hydrometer, what temperature was the wort? Did you get the 1.010 and 1.021 measurements by measuring wort that was at 60F or was it hotter than that at the time of the measurement?

    Next issues that would lower your efficiencies is that you said you collected 0.75 gallons of 1st runnings (original strike water 1 gallon) which sounds correct since you had 2.1 pounds of grain which should absorb roughly 0.125 gallons per pound of wort. However, if you sparged with 2 gallons, you should have been able to collect 2 gallons of 2nd runnings. Instead, you report that you only collected 1.25 gallons of 2nd runnings. That is a big loss of sugar and volume right there. Either your kettle has a very large (proportionally) dead space preventing you from capturing all of your runnings (it doesn't since you had 0 dead space as proven by your 1st runnings collection) or you did a poor job lautering on your 2nd runnings. Why did you stop collecting your second runnings when your preboil volume reached 2 gallons total? is that all of the room you had in your boil kettle? If so, you sparged with too much water. You should have only sparged with 1.25 gallons, not 2 gallons in that case.

    Hypothetically speaking, if you would have collected all of your second runnings you would have had 2.75 gallons preboil at roughly 1.012 for a mash efficiency of 41% and a total batch efficiency of 26% according to beersmith.

    Hypothetically speaking, if you would have collected 2.75 gallons preboil @ 1.022 SG (rather than the 1.010 SG you claimed you hit with 2 gallons preboil), that would have been a 74.5% mash extraction (which is about normal).

    Hypothetically speaking, 2 gallons preboil @ 1.030 SG would have been about 74% mash extraction (which is still about normal).

    The next thing I notice is that you claimed to boil down your 2 gallons preboil to 1.25 gallons in 75 minutes. That means you evaporated 37.5% of your batch in 75 minutes. That does not sound plausible. It should have been closer to 10% or 0.2 gallons.

    You also mention that your 1.25 gallons post boil volume = 1 gallon into the fermentor. That is plausible. That is about 0.05 gallons for cooling expansion loss and about 0.20 gallons for trub and transfer loss (assuming you left some break material and proteins in your boil kettle rather than transferring everything to your fermentor).
     
    #13 koopa, Sep 15, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Love all the mathwork, but I have to disagree on this one point... His reported boil-off was only 0.6 gallons per hour, which doesn't sound implausible to me. FWIW, I never calculate boil-off as a percentage. Given the same system configuration, putting only 2 gallons in a kettle won't significantly slow down the gallons/hour boiled away as compared to, say, 5 gallons in the same kettle. (At least not until you're into syrupy range.)
     
    nickfl likes this.
  15. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Fair enough thanks. Not knowing his kettle size, would you suggest that is due to a proportional increase in surface area for the smaller batch or something?
     
    #15 koopa, Sep 15, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Sort of. It's really due to the boil-off (in gallons/hour, not percent per hour) being relatively constant for any given surfaca area, boil strength, humidity, pressure, etc. i.e. the process doesn't really care how much water is deeper down in the kettle. But yes, if you think in terms of percent per hour, the percent per hour for the smaller batch would be higher, because the ratio of that surface area to the volume would be higher than it would be with a bigger volume.
     
    koopa likes this.
  17. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    I have a 12qt or 3gallon brew kettle.
    It seems my biggest mistake was too much water for my sparge. Seems that adding all of it or starting with a smaller amount would have made a big difference.
    I had just under 3qts of wort left over that didn't go into the brew kettle. Which puts me on the money with the 2 gallon total for my sparge.

    I did both gravity measurements at 65 degrees.

    My previous IPA batches preboil total volume started at 1.75 gallon and boiled down to 1 gallon in 60mins.

    If I run into this again should I just add all my wort and boil it down to my fermintaion batch size? I assume the best way to go about this is to purchase a refractometer and take my PBG during the end of my boil while the wort is hot. By the time the wort had cooled I was well on my way into actual boil.

    And thanks for the help/feedback!
     
  18. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Oh and my mash tun is a 3 gallon round igloo
     
  19. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    Easiest way to think about it is this..

    Mash with your normal volumes.

    Collect EVERYTHING from your 1st runnings.

    From there, figure out, via kettle marking, dip stick, sight glass, whatever, what you collected. If you got 1 gallon, and need 2, then sparge with only 1 gallon.

    Collect the whole 2nd runnings. That way you don't leave any water behind laden with sugars from the malt. If you end up needing to sparge more, adjust your boil length, assuming you know what your boil off rate is.
     
  20. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

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