Low Oxygen Brewing

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by OldBrewer, Apr 10, 2018.

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  1. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Savant (1,221) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Hi TheBeerery, I couldn't find a thread on low oxygen brewing in which to ask questions, so I thought I would create a thread for this topic and start by asking a couple of questions here.

    I really enjoyed your excellent article in the recent March-April issue of Brew Your Own magazine (Pages 78-83), and thought it was really well done and informative. It makes a lot of sense, especially for the more subtle-flavored beers like Pilsners, so I hope to incorporate some of these practices in my next Pilsner brew.

    I have a couple of questions:

    1) Your article advocated holding off on aerating/oxygenating the wort until the active yeast is pitched, in order to reduce oxygen damage to the wort, and that the active yeast when pitched would then become excellent scavengers for the added oxygen, reducing the length of time the wort is in contact with oxygen, yet still provide enough oxygen for the yeast. Since even active yeast would take some time to multiply enough to utilize the oxygen at a rapid enough rate, how soon after you pitch the active yeast should you start to aerate it? Should you let the yeast first multiply for some time, and in the meantime clean up any oxygen left in the wort before aerating/oxygenating?

    2) Your article also advocated underletting the strike water to your mash tun when mashing-in as opposed to adding the grain to the strike water. Wouldn't that result in massive clumping of the grain (grain balls) since no stirring takes place during this time, which in turn requires quite active stirring afterwards, which then re-introduces oxygen?

    Thank you.
     
  2. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,065) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    In my experience, I have more dough balls than I did when pouring the grain in for sure. I just very gently stir beneath the surface once all the mash or sparge water is in, avoiding any splashing as best as posssible. After a few minutes they all work themselves out.
     
  3. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Savant (1,221) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    It definitely seems worthwhile trying this way out, as in either case, gentle stirring, and avoiding as much splashing as possible, is required.
     
  4. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    I don't have BYO magazine. What is this theory on doughing in with little oxygen? Brulospohy "proved" hot side aeration wasnt an issue here: http://brulosophy.com/2014/11/18/is-hot-side-aeration-fact-or-fiction-exbeeriment-results/
     
  5. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

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  6. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Savant (1,221) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    It gets a little complicated to explain, and I'm sure TheBeerery can explain it better than me. The doughing in is only one of many steps used in low oxygen brewing, in order to limit exposure to the entire brewing operation as much as possible. According to the article: "There are malt-derived phenolic compounds that exist and gives un-oxidized wort a distinctive fresh flavor. Controlling dissolved oxygen (DO) levels using several changes in the procedures preserves these fresh malt flavors in the grains by protecting them against oxidation."

    In our normal homebrew setup, oxygen is limited only to some extent, and the results are sufficient for most palates. With the low oxygen procedures, the DO levels are reduced to levels similar to those of some commercial brewhouses. By using these procedures, one can simulate that "fresh" malt flavor that you get when you drink a fresh commercial product. The difference accounts for why a homebrew always tastes like a homebrew and never seems to be able to completely clone the freshness of a commercial beer. This is much more relevant to beers with more pronounced subtle malt tastes such as in Pilsners, rather than to strong in-your-face tastes that mask or overwhelm the malt flavor such as double IPA's.
     
  7. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    thats why I put "proved" and not proved.
     
  8. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Regardless you seem to be taking the experiment seriously or maybe I'm just not getting your internet sarcasm.
     
  9. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    I am taking it seriously but not as the law. no sarcasm.
     
  10. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Gotcha. That's fair I just don't think with the small amount of tasters (12) it holds any water at all. This is just my opinion, I generally enjoy reading brulosophy.
     
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  11. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    without reading the article, can you put the author's theories in the same category though?
     
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  12. Soneast

    Soneast Pooh-Bah (1,635) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    All good questions. Might help to tag @TheBeerery so he sees this post.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    But the ExBeeriments are generally evaluated by a number (generally less than 20) of beer tasters. Do you discount all of the other stuff in brulosophy as well?:confused:

    Cheers!
     
  14. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    No I generally just take them as entertaining experiments. Even at summary they still state they will continue doing things the "right" way.
     
  15. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    Are there any commercial breweries that practice low oxygen brewing?

    I’ve worked at two breweries and have talked with a fair number of other commercial brewers, never heard of low oxygen brewing prior to this forum.

    Would be surprised if even 1% of all breweries in the US practice low oxygen (hot side) brewing. Would be even more surprised if this is a theme among the top level breweries (Tree House, Hill Farmstead, Toppling Goliath, Trillium, Side Project, etc) in the country.

    Would be interested to know of some commercial breweries doing this, cheers.
     
  16. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    most people on r/thebrewery openly discuss dissolved oxygen and how to avoid it.
     
  17. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Savant (1,221) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    You would have to ask TheBeerery, but my understanding is that they don't consciously call their process low oxygen brewing. TheBeerery and others through highly technical documents and discussions with Brewmasters determined that their processes were of such a technical nature that they excluded oxygen in their equipment and processes far more significantly than we would as homebrewers. However there are many practical and not too difficult means available to homebrewers to reduce DO significantly, resulting in beers with much more noticeable "freshness" appeal.
     
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  18. thebriansmaude

    thebriansmaude Crusader (472) Dec 16, 2016 Canada (AB)
    Trader

    Having experienced the very noticeable and incredibly shitty impacts of oxidation on the cold side, I am certainly curious about out it on the hot side.
     
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  19. Brewday

    Brewday Initiate (0) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    He's a little busy with some new toys. Subscribe and check out his videos.My lodo batch goes to lager soon and can't wait to see what the results are.

     
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  20. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    Not negating the importance of LO Brewing. I think it’s fascinating and will be looking to make some feasible changes to my process soon.

    Just curious about the commercial implications.

    But what it sounds like you are saying is that commercial brewers by nature are implicitly doing, to varying degrees, LO brewing and that homebrewers, due to our scale and unsophisticated equipment, must make intentional process changes to approximate commercial-level low oxygen levels.

    Did I get that right?
     
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