Lowering ph

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Supergenious, Aug 26, 2014.

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  1. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    How many of you RO water brewers out there use acidulated malt or an acid of some sort to lower mash ph? If so, how frequently? I've been using mainly RO water (my tap water sucks) my last couple batches. Then using EZ water or Brewcipher, I add CaCl2 or CaSo4 to achieve my desired profile, which has worked fine so far. But, I'm planning on brewing a Wit this weekend, and it's requiring me to add large amounts of minerals (which I don't want to do) to get the ph down. Is it the wheat? My recipe is primarily Pils and flaked wheat (60/40) and some oats. I'm guessing a little acidulated malt or lactic acid would be a good idea. But just want to verify this with somebody else. thanks.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I use lactic acid to acidify my tap water. Lactic acid should work just fine for RO + mineral addition too.

    Cheers!
     
    CurtFromHershey likes this.
  3. carteravebrew

    carteravebrew Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2010 Colorado

    You would be guessing correctly.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Lactic Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Acid Malt. Any of the above.
    And yes, it's the wheat that's driving your pH up.
     
  5. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    "And yes, it's the wheat that's driving your pH up"

    That, and a lack of any caramel or roast in the recipe.
     
    inchrisin likes this.
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You could just as easily say that a lack of phosphoric acid is driving the pH up. But neither crystal/roasted malt nor phosphoric acid are part of the recipe, so what do they have to do with it? Wheat malt has higher distilled water mash pH than typical (barley) base malts... take any grist you want and substitute wheat malt for some/all of the base malt. pH goes up.
     
  7. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Thanks, figured it was the wheat. For some reason just needed a little reassurance before adding acid.
     
  8. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Just letting any newer brewers reading this thread that there are MANY recipe items/combinations that will make mash ph go up or down...that's all.
     
    dbrese likes this.
  9. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Oh good. You had me thinking the ANTI "Crystal Malt Police" had gotten to you.
     
    jsullivan02130 likes this.
  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Citric and Sulfuric acids are also used by some.

    Edit - citric works, just don't over do it.
    Sulfuric adds SO4 along with dropping pH, but is nasty to work with in the homebrew environment.
     
  11. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Must be tough marketing also: "On Tap #3 is a delightful Ale; bittered with Cascade and acidified with Sulfric Acid" :rolling_eyes:
     
    dbrese, premierpro and GreenKrusty101 like this.
  12. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    I use acidulated malt on most of my pale beers, maybe all of them. To me, it's easier to work with than phosphoric acid.
     
  13. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    I use RO water exclusively and always use a little wheat in my pale beers, so my mash pH is always high. I add all Ca++ containing salts to the mash and usually use between 2-3% acid malt to get sub-5.3.
     
  14. slusk

    slusk Initiate (0) Sep 28, 2009 Virginia

    I tend to lean towards lactic. From what I've read, acidulated malt is just a pale malt that has been infused with lactic acid and there may be some inconsistency in the amount it actually absorbs. I typically have more consistent results using lactic. But that's just me, :wink:
     
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  15. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    I've had good success with acidulated malt in mash, phosphoric acid to get sparge water to 5.5 - 5.8 range and then mineral additions straight to BK.
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Just how one malting company does it: “Weyermann Acidulated Malt is produced by using lactic acid, which is generated by on grain natural occurring lactic bacteria.”

    Cheers!
     
  17. dbrese

    dbrese Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2011 Vermont

    Using some lactic acid might be the easiest way to go. It is usually a standard concentration (88%) and only requires a few mL to lower the pH of the mash. Acidulated malt can be variable, but the rule of thumb about the quantity needed for the same effect as lactic acid tends to work well. The question I would ask is, Do you want that malt in your beer? Your recipe doesn't seem to have anywhere for the acidulated malt to hide if the base pilsner malt used to make it doesn't suit your needs. Also, what does "large amounts of minerals" mean to you?
     
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    His basic grist is 60% (or nearly 60% pilsner malt). If he adjusts the pH by switching in 4 ounces or so (probably less, after mineral additions) of acidulated malt for ~4 ounces of whatever pilsner base he's using, nobody on the planet is going to notice that the pilsner used to make the acid malt was (maybe) a slightly different variety from his base pilsner.

    I would say the same thing if his base malt was American 2-Row, or Maris Otter, or whatever.
     
  19. bushycook

    bushycook Zealot (681) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia

    Quick noob question. Why not just add (as opposed to switching out) those few oz of acid malt to the grist? Would that really affect the OG or the overall character of the final beer that much to be noticeable?
     
  20. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    No, good point...but don't make a habit of adding large amounts of things like sugar without replacing some malt...cheers
     
    bushycook likes this.
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