Märican Biere Bought and Drunk...

@MattRiggs thanks for that report!

A BIG +1 to "Heady Topper is truly a wonder." IMHO that beer truly deserves the hype associated with it!

I also agree with "Two Hearted is, in my opinion, a perfect beer." I am in Michigan right now (I attended the NHC) and I have had several pints/bottles of Two Hearted since it really is a great beer.

Cheers!

 

I had Heady Topper and Two Hearted side by side. Like you, I still think Two Hearted is an exemplar of the U.S. IPA style, but the HT is, indeed, pretty magical. They hit on a magic formula with the Conan yeast and the hop profile. I think what I liked best about it, however, was how "familiar" it felt (even though I had never had it before). "Old friend" beers are my favorite kinds of beers, and HT had that combination of magic and familiarity I've only found in a very few beers. Too bad it's so hard to get sometimes...even at the source!

 

One question: if you shared the can of HT by giving everyone a small pour, wasn't it exceedingly easy to at least spot the HT?

 

It was fairly easy to spot, yes. It was lighter in color and had more yeast in suspension than the others. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure most people could pick out its aroma with their eyes closed.

Sometime this week I'll be enjoying a cold one in accordance with the guidance that's printed on the can "Drink from the can!".

 

Hmm? Whereabouts Mr. Riggs? Wish we could have shared a beer!

 

We farm down by Champaign. It'll be fall 2015 before I make it back home again due to going to Doemens this fall.

 

Okay -- be a weekend trip for me, but it would be fun!

Champaign huh? What was that family-run German restaurant that used to be down there? As I recall it was pretty good -- cut your teeth there?

 

You're probably thinking about the Bayern Stube in Gibson City. Ironically, I've never been there. I'll have to check it out sometime.

 

The one I was at was right in Champaign or Urbana, had a family name attached. I'll see if I can dig up some info.

 

BA German forum meetup in Champaign! I'm in!

BTW, I met Hopfenunmaltz and JackHorzempa at the NHC in Grand Rapids this past week.

 

Jerry,

It was a pleasure meeting up with you and 'exchanging' homebrewed beers. I had a great time!!

Cheers!

Jack

 

Not sure I agree with that sentiment. I mean, I don't agree with the first sentiment, either. It's jingoism based on cultural ignorance and judging a nation's populace based on filtered media input. Speaking of culture, there is just a vast difference - in addition to the fact that American workers in the service industry have to rely on tips. Basically means they're forced to manipulate their customers so they can make a living. Not sure I want to support such a system.

I'm not sure I like certain ideas of "politeness", either. Neither do I think a "good" or "well functioning" society requires traits such as "politeness". I don't care about random people's life story, I don't care about being polite to neonazis or other whackjobs that contribute to the spread of false information, shoddy communication or derogatory social concepts. I mean, do I think people should get all up in arms about trivialities? Of course not, but why would you? Does it in any way affect your live apart from one isolated moment? I kinda doubt that. And again, "politeness" can easily be used as a tool for manipulation - especially regarding vested financial interests.

As for U.S. beer here, I've had some Anchor Barleywine which was delicious. Sierra Nevada's IPA and Torpedo, the latter was a bit too hoppy for me, liked the former. Firestone Walker's Pale 31 was great. Also had the Brooklyn Brewery Lager, didn't convince me, though. I still wanna try Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot, Hefe, Porter/Stout, Anchor's Porter, IPA and Steam in the near future.

 

If you don't care about being polite to strangers, you will have no problem in Germany.

 

I am German. Also, the notion that everyone is being "impolite" to strangers is just erroneous and again - culturally myopic. Looking at European societal tendencies with an American perspective is just as idiotic as looking at American societal (or political) tendencies with a distinctly European perspective.

The idea that there is a cross-cultural universal notion of "politeness" is strictly oversimplified generalization. Some people in Bavarian or Eastern German areas might adhere to that definition, others won't. For some, "polite" is NOT striking up conversations with total strangers. For some, "polite" is just going about your own business. A lot of what Americans see as customary, some people here will view as excessively nosy or "pushy".

 

You are basically confirming what einhorn said with your second paragraph. A simple hello/smile in a store turns into your jingoist statement of hearing everyone's life story, which simply is not true, yet you are perpetuating the very thing that you deride.
I agree with einhorn's statement, the majority of Germans view American politeness as superficial, however, I counter that with the German rudeness being superficial. Which would you rather have? a superficial smile or a nefarious hatred filled smirk followed by a grunt? (this is obviously not always the case, but it happens more often than not)

When I go into a store and ask for help I expect the employee to at least give me answers and point me in the right direction. I do not expect them to tell me their life story or their ambitions, but I also demand that they not treat me as if I just assaulted them by asking where I can find pesto. Their jobs, like the service people in the US you refer to, also depend on myself and others visiting the store.

 

Thanks for making my point. As much as that is not universally valid, the idea that every German is quasi-nihilist bag of hatred just waiting to smirk at everything and everyone is not a universally valid statement. Also, if you can make stipulations based on your personal experience - why can't I ?

Again, see above. These are cultural prototypes, not anything that has any universal validity across geographical areas. Both of these. How about actually looking at both of my posts instead of cherry-picking something for your response. Oh, I would also wonder - why would even spent any time - or even live here if these things are such an inconvenience?

Can't say this ever happened to me. Also, in the specific example I was referring to people who work in a system of tips - which is not the case for service people in stores.

 

That is a REALLY cynical way of viewing tips. However, the lack of tips generally is one reason German is often referred to as a Servicewüste, or "service desert." I don't tip in German restaurants as much as I do in the USA for the reason you mentioned above, i.e the Americans rely on the tips for their livelihood, but I do tip here when I get good service and withhold a tip when I have to wait 30 minutes just to get a get the attention of the waiter to pay my bill. And to me, American service isn't really world class. Go to Japan and there you will find the best service. Nonetheless, German service is nowhere near the nadir I experienced in Russia in GUM, a Soviet-era/style department store.

Overall, I think the main problems Americans face when traveling in Northern Europe and Germany specifically is that Americans equate friendliness with politeness. I'm afraid @SirRainboom, you and every other German (I get a an ear-full from students who visit) who complains when going to America that people keep asking them "how are you?" and other ice breakers, what they're really complaining about is that Americans as strangers are unduly friendly, and this is jarring to German's level of distance they expect of strangers. It's like when someone stands so close in your personal space that you feel uncomfortable. Americans tend to be extremely friendly to strangers, and that is considered being polite. They see Germans being stand-offish, distant, curt and frank with strangers, and consider it rude. Again, Germans and Americans both are confusing friendliness with politeness. Germans are polite but quite formal with strangers, which due to the lack of friendliness, comes off as rude to Americans. Americans are friendly and informal with strangers and Germans read it as being rude and too forward for the situation. I come across both sides of this all the time in public in Germany. Neither are rude or polite, rather it's a continuum of friendliness to strangers that's being wrongly interpreted.

Service people's politeness or rudeness is a totally different animal, and I believe it's cross-culturally uniform in how people view it. Put simply, you are paying for interaction with a human that is giving you what you want, a service. Giving your request in a prompt, pleasant and friendly manner is part of what people pay for. Yes, we buy their friendliness and politeness; otherwise, why else would they be in contact with us? Failure to deliver the service in a prompt, pleasant and friendly manner is rude in any culture because when you pay, you expect a level of service; otherwise, there's no need for any personal interaction and a machine would suffice. Being social creatures who crave personal interactions, humans pay extra for this service, so a slow, mean, and unfriendly service is a breach of the contract: poor-quality personal interactions is not what people pay for.

Germans have tolerated the slow, mean, and unfriendly service for a long time, usually in direct correlation with the difficulty or inability of that service staff to being fired.

Now to the superficial debate: Yes, Americans tend to be socially superficial to strangers. They have a high comfort level to saying hello to colleagues or people you know or in other aspects of life, talking about your life story with strangers or acquaintances, and never going deeper than that for years, and then never realizing they're missing a deeper level of friendship. Americans tend to be friendly and open to anyone who's momentarily around them, and then move on the next person, as if everyone is a one collective body. I've only seen this in Americans. Americans tend to make quick superficial friendships and then forget them as soon as they've moved to a new location.

Most people in all the countries I've lived in (Japan, Turkey, Holland, Germany & USA) long term are not like Americans. Instead, they are slow to make friends, but when they do, it's a deep friendship and it's meant to be long term. Anyway, I don't think either way is good or bad, just different. I personally wish there were a culture where people were extremely friendly as strangers and developed deep, long-lasting friendships; however, these 2 traits seem to be mutually exclusive. Germany is on the slow to make friends but form deep friendships end of the continuum; America is on the complete opposite end.

 

To bring the discussion back to beer...

Once a couple of friends (one American, one German) and I were sitting in a small, country brewery outside of Bamberg. My American friend had studied in Hamburg and spoke good high-German. When the Wirt walked by, he said: "Entschuldigen Sie. Ich haette gern noch ein Bier." The Wirt looked at him like he was crazy. My American friend then asked the German -- who was local -- what he had said/done wrong. The local explained that you order a beer around Bamberg by just saying something like "noch'n Bier" (and/or holding up a thumb). Point is, there are degrees of "politeness" from region to region as well -- in both countries. Down here in the South we hold doors for anyone and everyone, wave at complete strangers, and are "polite" to the point of passive-aggression. My German wife found it off-putting at first, but quickly got used to it. She now says she prefers it to the general German attitude of "polite" distance. I, on the other hand, sometimes miss the prescribed distance that is afforded by something as simple as using the "Sie" with someone instead of the "du."

 

It's not the tips I think are bad, I think it's bad that their wages are so bad that they NEED tips to make an adequate living. I may to have elaborate on the other point a bit further, I think it can be "manipulation" because - let's just say you have attractive servers that give you great service - you give them big tips, they get to you more quickly in the future etc etc. First issue I have with this is price discrimination - admittedly, this is just personal perspective, I just don't like price discrimination and I don't think it makes for a good structural fraemwork. Second thing is when this business interaction ventures into territory that it isn't, e.g. people feeling it is adequate to keep servers from doing their job, touching them and the likes.

That is pretty much the elaborate version of what I was trying to get at. Extremely good points, though.

I agree, but again - there is a difference between what people do in stores and what people do in things like restaurants, pubs etc. If you expect "great service" from someone who's paid to stock the shelves you shouldn't be surprised you won't get it. Not everyone working in the "service industry" (which is pretty much anything that doesn't create material goods) is doing service in that vein.

Again, I think it kinda depends. This sounds a lot like the descriptions of people working in bureaucratic jobs, I've had normal to great service in things like pubs, Biergärten and restaurants. As for supermarkets, there's probably boatloads of variance.

Kinda felt this when I was in FL, you put it more concisely though.

I have almost nothing to add here, extremely good and well articulated post on this topic.

 

Interesting discussion. Though I would come at this from the viewpoint that levels of politeness are relative. As a Texan, I find Germans (and New Yorkers, for that matter...) to be generally rather rude and impolite, not because they objectively are, but because I expect a level of politeness (fake or otherwise) equivalent to that of a Texan (holding doors, smiling faces, etc...). Compared to what I expect, they are subjectively impolite, because my expectations of “polite” behavior are based upon my cultural upbringing.

The flipside is also true. For Germans like my wife, visiting Texas may involve an assault on their expectations of privacy and what they consider “polite” behavior. For these individuals, as @boddhitree noted, because they have been raised to maintain (and expect) a respectful distance, the continual bombardment of strangers asking them about their lives (“How are you?”, “Are you enjoying Texas?”, etc...) is a social faux-pas on the order of asking an American about their sex life. It is, in their subjective estimation, impolite because it pretends to an intimacy that does not (yet) exist.

In each instance, the individuals do not view their culture as being negative because it is simply the “normal” behavior. We are culturally-conditioned to live according to the norms of our community. Germans generally tolerate what I consider to be rudeness because they are conditioned to do so; ie, they expect it; it is normal; therefore it is not "rude". Likewise, Texans don’t mind being asked how they are doing because not to do so is the abnormal behavior.

To bring this discussion back around to beer, the concept of cultural conditioning reminds me of how we all experience beers differently (and subjectively) depending on our conditioning. Because I was raised on my version of “politeness”, I am fairly confident that I can distinguish between superficial politeness and heartfelt interest. They may sound the same to the average German, but I have been conditioned (and therefore have the necessary experience) to distinguish between the small variations (at least I would like to think so...). The same is true of beer. I rarely (if ever) drink Pils and Helles and Export, mainly because I don't like them. Because I lack the necessary experience, I can’t really tell them apart (sorry @herrburgess...). To me, the intricacies are lost and they all taste pretty much the same. I'm not really conditioned to "appreciate" them. But if you give me a weizen or a doppelbock, that's a whole different story.