Märzen Recipe - Does any Crystal belong?

That grain bill would be on the lighter end of the color spectrum for a Marzen. Personally, I find that 4-6% Caramunich in the 50L range adds a nice rich maltiness and bumps the color up to a bit deeper amber. I also usually add a few ounces of melanoiden malt since I don't decoct.

 

Crystal? Nein. München und Wien malz. Stick with your non-Americanized plan, I think your percentages look good but you could drop some of that Pils to up your Vienna malt, or even just your Munich malt.

 

I like equal thirds of pils, Vienna, and Munich 10L. No crystal if you want to make a German festbier. Add 7-8% caramunich if you want the darker Americanized marzen.

 

Another vote for no crystal malt.

 

I've made only one. It was my first lager, 8 years ago, and iy came out nicely. I was inspired by the American versions and used 5% Caramunich, along with a little melanoiden and Carafa special, with a blend of munich, Vienna, and German Pale Ale base malt (wanted Pilsner; there was a mistake in my order). Since you are trying to be more traditional, makes sense to avoid the Caramunich and probably the other specialty malts, too.

 

I also suggest no crystal in Marzen. I personally use pils, Vienna, and Munich. I've played with the percentages and recieved the best feedback from a 25%/25% Vienna/Munich and 50% pilsner.

 

I just pulled my last recipe, which turned out well imo. It was 43% pilsner malt and 57% dark munich malt. OG of 1.055. The color was darker than Ayinger but lighter than Spaten. I don't think you need the crystal malt for color adjustment, imo. Just keep the pilsner malt under 45% and it will be firmly a marzen and not a festbier.

 

I can't recall if I ever had and Octoberfest/Märzen/Festbier from Bull Falls, but I'll suggest that New Glarus' Staghorn is more along the lines of what Americans have come to expect in Octoberfest beers, i.e. darker and sweeter than the more recently recognized "Festbier" style. I would guess that it has some crystal malt in it. Their website says they use Wisconsin malts (presumably that means Briess) in this beer. Although there is no confirmation of crystal malt. they are going for something reddish: http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/beers/OurBeers/Beer/staghorn-octoberfest
As much as I love German malts in my own beers, I can't look down my nose at Staghorn. I think it's delicious.

 

When Americans think Marzen/Oktoberfest they think Sam Adams AKA a crystal bomb. This is why the recipes seem to have it.

The festbier is a more recent development and should not have crystal. It sounds like this is what you are shooting for. Feel free to leave it out.

 

I have brewed amber Oktoberfest beers both ways: no crystal and with a bit of crystal (CaraMunich) and I have enjoyed both 'versions'. IMO a bit of CaraMunich plays well in this type of beer.

Cheers!

 

Or you could just use all pils malt and Sinamar for colour. I'm sure that's what loads of German breweries do.

Someone recently told me that they spottes a load of Sinamar at paulaner. When they asked what it was for, they said it was for the Oktoberfest they send to the US "because Americans expect it to be darker."

 

Ron, does Sinamar contribute to the flavor profile or is it just a coloring agent?

Cheers!

 

A handful of German breweries may use a miniscule (almost always <5%) amount of CaraMunich malt. I, personally, find the flavor that even that amount imparts out-of-place/unpleasant. If you want color, there are other ways, such as adding a small amount of milled Carafa during the recirc and sparge to get the color without the roastiness or even toastiness.

 

Mostly just colour.

 

Well, that would be disappointing if the German brewery is using just Pilsner malt and Sinamar. That beer would essentially just be a colored Pilsner.

You stated: "I'm sure that's what loads of German breweries do." Do you have an idea percentage wise on this?

Cheers!

 

In my limited experience using Sinamar, I find it definitely contributes some flavor. But as you say, it definitely contributes a good deal of color.

 

Your post reminded me of the following excerpt from a Journal of the institute of brewing article from 1966 (pages 17-18):

"The various types of malt are kilned
according to the beer requirements. For
Pilsener and very light export beers a very
pale but intensively kilned malt is required:
colour, approximately 2*5° E.B.C.; protein
modification, 37-40% Kolbach; coarse/fine
grind difference, 1-5-2-0. Some maltings try
to achieve a lower modification in order to
improve the head of the beer. Even for the
pale-coloured heavy beers (original gravity
16-5-17-5%) a very pale coloured malt is
used.
The West German export beers are some
what darker. For these beers, as well as for
the Bavarian pale-coloured lager beers, malt
with a good modification and a colour
of approximately 4° E.B.C. is required.
Occasionally a certain percentage of "Wiener"
malt with a colour 5-0-6-00 E.B.C. is used in
the grist, although this malt is normally used
for "Märzenbieren" (medium coloured beers).
The dark Munich malts have a very wet
and intensive germination and are kilned
off at 100-105° C; as a result they obtain a
good aroma. Owing to the lengthy kilning
they are poor in enzymes and have to be
mashed very carefully. They are used on
their own, or together with approximately
1% coloured malt for the brewing of dark
beer. For Märzenbiere they are blended to
50% with pale malt."

 

Did you boldface those passages to imply that these "dark Munich malts" somehow correspond to modern CaraMunich malts?

 

I am pursuing a wholly separate conversation with scottakelly and anyone interested.