Maine Beer Company (Black Barn Program)

Haha, touche.

 

why do they have to tell people? Just do it. Its a marketing thing.

 

Regardless I don't think this justifies the cost of the beer. Bissell Brother's isn't exactly using slave or child labor so to buy from MBC vs BB doesn't make me feel any better. MBC most likely treats their employees better than BB but we don't have any idea how much better it is. This isn't fair trade coffee where the alternative is to buy coffee from a vendor who is known to treat their employees poorly (or at least the vendors they source from do).

A more similar comparison might be Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream. They are pretty well known for having a corporate infrastructure that attempts to make pay structures fair across employees, treat employees well, respect the environment, etc.. Their products are certainly higher in price but probably not higher in price than most other premium brands. Most people are paying the higher cost vs say a Hood brand ice cream because the ice cream is demonstrably better. Most people probably don't really care that they probably treat their employees better, the environment better, as well as the vendors they source their materials from. It may come into play if you are deciding between Ben & Jerry's and Häagen-Dazs. Therein lies the problem MBC is not only much more expensive than the "standard" brand but they are also much more expensive than the premium brand.

Clearly we on BA are a minority out there but I just can't comprehend how the MBC model works when I can't see a parallel in other industries. I think some one also stated its some sort of witchery

 

Do you understand that it’s possible to both believe in doing good things and also being aware that doing so is worth touting because it helps your brand? They aren’t mutually exclusive.

I can tell you that the MBC owners believe strongly in running their company in a certain way, by being environmentally conscious, treating their employees well (and yes, it’s far better than most breweries), and giving back to the community. They also believe in making money (I know, crazy right), so they have built a brand around promoting the good works that are important to them and which they hope are important enough to other people that it simultaneously gives them a business edge. That doesn’t mean that the “do what’s right” thing is some kind of bullshit act. Try not to be so cynical.

 

I listened to the Craft Beer and Brewing podcast interview with Kleban recently and gained more respect for them as a company overall. They asked about cans as well and Kleban said the same thing everyone has been saying for years. People are buying them. Until they stop, why would they change?

 

I mean... why not? What does "it's a marketing thing" even mean? Do you hate breweries that engage in marketing?

Also, what could be a more deliberate act of "virtue signaling" than logging onto this website to tell us all how cheesed off you are about this?

 

There's also something to leading by example. If you make it clear how you operate to others then maybe others will realize that you can run a business and do it responsibly. This isn't just in the brewing industry, any person who walks through that door can see that treating employees well and making money aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe, just maybe, someone walking into the brewery runs a business sees that sign, notices that the employees seem happy to be there and are productive, and changes the way they treat their employees.

I don't doubt these guys are legit in their beliefs and actions. I'm sure there are others in the industry who only do "good things" to keep up an image but doubting that these guys aren't the real deal just doesn't add up.

 

I think it's a good response to people saying OMG THEIR PRICES THEIR PRICES OMG.

 

Allagash is a good comparison. They’ve never shied away from talking about their charitable events, environmental responsibilities, overall good deeds within the community on social media. I don’t see a difference between them and MBC. Both are genuine and seem like great companies to work for.

 

And Allagash starting canning in 2019. Get on it, MBC.

 

Damn you got us there

 

In the post prior to yours, MBC customers were descirbed as "rubes".

There have been enough scandals over the years in craft involving poor employee treatment (Blue Lobster, Founders, Trillium, Wormtown off the top of my head) that breweries like MBC/Bissell/Alchemist making it a point to promote quality employer/employee relations is good and important. Or to put it another way....

....and it should not be brushed off as virtue signaling.

 

Exactly - price per ounce is the issue - and the conduit to which it's delivered exponentially exacerbates that discrepancy between MBC and others that can.

 

Pliny was $5.50 a bottle when I was there in late January.

 

Calling the MBC customers "rubes" is not vitriol against MBC. I wouldn't call their customers rubes but I do wonder what drives their regular customers. I will buy MBC occasionally and specifically buy Dinner and Second Dinner when the chance arises. For most of their beers the cost vs value isn't really there, at least not for me. If the value is that they treat their employees well then I'd still look to other breweries that treat their employees well that are more cost effective. You mention Bissell which is a great example, their beers are much more reasonably priced. Allagash is another. Honestly though while I continue to question this its a dead horse. MBC is successful so who cares? They'll change when people stop buying but they won't change because a small subset on BA complains about it

I think we'll see more poor treatment of employees going forward. Breweries that depend on distribution to survive are going to have a harder and harder time. There's too much competition out there in distribution. I think the local taproom model has room to grow but we've got more than enough volume in distribution where something has to give. When costs need to be cut its usually the low level employee who suffers. As we can see bad publicity didn't hurt Trillium, they seem to add a new location every few months. Then again being a bad person doesn't seem to be something the world is looking down at anymore...

 

I strongly disagree. If the customers of a business are rubes, then the correlation is that the business is conning them. Especially when the label is being applied for buying their product.

Besides liking the taste of the beer?

It's much easier to get than a brewery that has no distribution. Even Bissell has pretty limited distribution (I can't buy it in a store now that I've moved from Southern Maine). A disproportionate number of MBC's customers are not local. Once you factor in what local breweries are charging for beer in Massachusetts, Connecticut or New York - there isn't a sticker shock to paying their prices. Their beers still have a flavor profile that hasn't been done to death. They are not brewing juicy hop bombs or stouts loaded with adjuncts. It makes sense to me that they have a unique customer profile vs their neighboring brewers.

Remember when it was a crime against the environment that they weren't filling growlers?

 

The definition of rube is "a naive or inexperienced person". That does not connote that the business is conning them, its simply infers that their customers don't realize that there is other beer that is of equal or greater quality at a lower price point.

As for motivation, it takes more than liking the taste of their beer. No one denies they make great beer. What is questioned is whether its both unique and worth the cost. I do believe that Dinner and Second Dinner are fairly unique. I might actually consider those two beers two of the best beers I've had in a long time. That being said let's compare what buying roughly a case of DIPA's at Bissell would be to the equivalent amount of Dinner's. Last time I was at Bissell 24 DIPA's ran me about $102. Dinner is $8 per bottle and the equivalent would be between 22-23 bottles which is $176-184. That's a huge difference. At the bottom we are talking $74 more for the same amount of beer. Dinner isn't worth a $74 differential. Some of MBC's other beers are a bit cheaper at around $7 per bottle and those are even a worse value because they aren't very unique, IMHO. The beers you would compare them to are even cheaper as well.

As for local beers in MA, CT, or NY? A case of hyped DIPA's will generally run you more in the range of $144. Still a $32 difference at the low end. Getting closer for sure if we stick with doing an apples to apples comparison of DIPA to DIPA. DIPA's are generally overpriced to be honest, certainly there are those who prefer DIPA's but I think they tend to focus on size rather than quality. If there was an equivalent MBC IPA to Dinner I'd take that over Dinner any day. Personally I buy single IPA's which are closer to the $100 range for a case (or $100-120 for a good local IPA in sixtel). So if we are going on pure taste we are still in the $74 differential area. There's a good reason why you don't see a ton of MBC at most craft beer stores in MA and its not because they are sold out. I stick with my comment of "I do wonder what drives their regular customers".

 

Maybe their regular customers have a crap ton more disposable income, and just dont' care? I mean, there's a reason some people wear a Rolex, and some wear a Tudor.

 

A majority of the people who walk out of MBC aren't lugging case(s) of beer. That doesn't mean no one buys big, but it's not Treehouse where they need to have a large stock of carts for the people walking out with several hundreds of dollars of beer. Their bread and butter does not reflect this forum. You just ran a bunch of numbers that don't apply to who they are primarily selling to. And it's clearly not a big deal when deciding to buy a few 16oz cans at roughly $4-$8 at many breweries in New England vs buying 16.9oz bottles for 5-8 at MBC (I know they go for a little more at stores).

 

Whenever I visit LL Bean in Freeport, I often ask myself why the wealthy rubes walking in and out of their stores aren't buying from Sierra Trading Post instead. Don't they know the price per stitch?