major distribution changes in VA

Discussion in 'Mid-Atlantic' started by ncaudle, Apr 23, 2015.

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  1. ncaudle

    ncaudle Initiate (0) May 28, 2010 Virginia

    Hop & Wine just sold off major portions of their statewide dist to Loveland (in RVA) and Blue Ridge (Western VA). no word if anything is changing down in the Tidewater or NoVA areas.
     
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  2. beernuts

    beernuts Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2014 Virginia

    What does this mean to those of us who don't know who distributes what?
     
  3. lillitnn92

    lillitnn92 Initiate (0) Aug 22, 2009 Virginia

    Not a thing, not a thing.
     
  4. ncaudle

    ncaudle Initiate (0) May 28, 2010 Virginia

    for certain breweries, it could mean better availability.
    example: Alewerks. RVA gets shitted on by H&W when it comes to Alewerks bottles; shops often only got 1 case of their bombers/special beers while shops in NoVA would get multiple cases and shops in Tidewater (different distributor) would get stacks of cases. that could significantly improve with Loveland
     
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  5. TomCat11

    TomCat11 Pooh-Bah (2,096) Jul 21, 2012 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So, we won't be able to talk about getting "Hop & Wine'd" when it takes 2-3 weeks for some distro to hit. Bummer....
     
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  6. bushycook

    bushycook Zealot (681) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia

    But Alewerks is a 757 brewery, shouldn't we get the biggest allotment? Although I do think RVA should be next in line before NOVA.
     
  7. MistaRyte

    MistaRyte Pooh-Bah (2,681) Jan 14, 2008 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Wish I could track down what it means as far as new stuff coming in for Hampton Roads
     
  8. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    It means Loveland has finally responded to the massive craft portfolio of Brown. Makes me wonder though if Loveland did this to increase their value in case they do plan on selling out to Reyes or if this move is the last nail in the coffin of the whole selling to Reyes rumors. Either way, we're likely on the verge of a potentially nasty shelf space war in the RVA between Loveland and Brown, as the hatred between the two is palpable, but the lack of expansive craft offerings from Loveland has kept the hatred from boiling over. Yes, Loveland has SN, SA, Boulevard and a handful of VA breweries that are largely under the radar (Lost Rhino, Wild Wolf are a few) but they lacked the real punch of craft brands that demand taps and shelf space through highly touted limited releases, seasonals and year rounds that are more highly regarded than their current lineup. Keep in mind that aside from Alewerks, this gives (amongst others) Loveland Founders, Bells and Lagunitas (Specialty will likely remain the 21st, DFH and Stone distro for VA). Maybe we'll even see some revitalized Great Lakes distro? I'd like to think that this move does more good for us as beer fans than it harms. If nothing else, it's going to make it very interesting around here between these two foes.
     
  9. TomCat11

    TomCat11 Pooh-Bah (2,096) Jul 21, 2012 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    My suggestion would be to look at the current portfolio of H&W available on their site (before they update it) to see what products they current distribute. I don't know if H&W currently distributes to HR but if so then maybe nothing will change and they will continue as usual in the area.
     
  10. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Here's H&W

    21ST AMENDMENT NEW PLANET OSKAR BLUES
    ANDERSON FOUNDERS JOLLY PUMPKIN
    AVERY BREWERY GREAT DIVIDE PORT CITY
    BEAR REPUBLIC GREAT LAKES SEA DOG
    BELL’S HEBREW SHIPYARD
    BISON HIGH & MIGHTY SPEAK EASY
    HIGHLAND HOPPIN’ FROG STONE BREWING
    BUTTERNUTS LAGUNITAS TOMMYKNOCKER
    CISCO LAKEFRONT UNCOMMON BREWERS
    CHAMPION LOST RHINO VICTORY
    DOGFISH MAD RIVER WEYERBACHER
    DUCK RABBIT MOYLANS BREW ALEWORKS BREWING COMPANY
    DUCLAW BREWING NEW ENGLAND YARDS
    EPIC NEW HOLLAND CHAMPION
    EVOLUTION NORTH COAST CORCORAN
    SOUTHHAMPTON THREE HEADS WHITE BIRCH
    WILD WOLF

    ....just happened to have it open.....

    You'll have to cross reference it with Specialty Beverage (for central VA) to see what they will retain rights to.

    https://specialtybevva.com/portfolio

    Keep in mind that Brown currently has Oskar Blues and Weyerbacher
     
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  11. MistaRyte

    MistaRyte Pooh-Bah (2,681) Jan 14, 2008 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If Norfolk could get Great Lakes stuff I would be a happy man... I see Lost Rhino and Uncommon Brewers as well, which would be new to me. Yards I've seen on the western part of VA, but not much here.
     
  12. oldn00b

    oldn00b Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2015 Virginia

    So does that mean SE VA could see more OB and Weyerbacher? I feel like I never see stuff like Ten FIDY or SMS on the shelves but I've never actually looked for either and only had Ten FIDY on tap.
     
  13. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Brown likely not expanding it outside central VA but maybe LovLeland could take a crack at it. Maybe they could work in a TW drop every few weeks? Maybe they sell se VA rights to Hoffman?
     
  14. montman

    montman Maven (1,444) Mar 10, 2009 Virginia
    Trader

    FWIW, the OB shelf stuff is already easily available anywhere in SEVA, ten fidy included. Usually see the weyerbacher seasonals too like Hersey & insanity. Didn't see SMS though.
     
  15. RVA_All_Day_IPA

    RVA_All_Day_IPA Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2015 Virginia

    Highly unlikely, I wouldn't be surprised to see selection of former H&W beers decrease when they transfer over to Loveland. H&W allocates rare release beers proportional to how much total of that brand an account has purchased in the last calendar year. This is a fairly common practice and Brown does the same thing with Gingerbread and Hardywood. It should come as no surprise then that NoVa consumes far more of AleWerks (and other breweries) beer than RVA. I'm not defending H&W, this sell out means a lot of people are losing their jobs at H&W, but if you want more BV, Cafe Royale, etc. then you should support more of the breweries year round beers that help pay the bills.

    Second, larger wholesalers who dont have a craft focus (like Loveland) are typically poor at selling craft beer and will not keep all SKUs from a brewery in stock. Loveland field reps do a poor job of selling beer that is not PBR, Miller Lite of Coors (as does Brown). Loveland has a decent craft team but they still faces an uphill battle when to comes to selling craft. For example, Boulevard was all over town when they launched but you are hard-pressed now to find Boulevard tap handles.

    It's very likely that you will see a number of more minor SKUs from breweries disappear over the next few weeks as the transition occurs. Most of them you won't notice, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Racer 5 disappear from the market due to the issues Bear Rep has faced with the water shortage.
     
  16. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    My take is a little different. I tend to believe that Mark Stepanian was getting tired of Brown handing him his lunch every quarter when it came to who wields the most craft swagger in town. Brown had the bar raised pretty high by birthing the whole Taste the Local theme but this transfer from H&W will finally be their way to level the playing field. They certainly didn't fork over mad cash to H&W just to lose money. And also, if Loveland does worse and they drop the ball on the craft they just picked up, that will just mean more shelf space, taps and most importantly - more money for Brown. No way Stepanian wants them to realize higher levels of success due to them dropping the ball! As for a craft team, it's not like it was even 4 years ago. Now the customers (retailers, not you and I) are more informed and are demanding craft offerings. You no longer need the same level of craft savvy in a salesperson that you once did.
     
  17. RVA_All_Day_IPA

    RVA_All_Day_IPA Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2015 Virginia

    I am very curious to see how the next year plays out with the transfer to Loveland, but there are a number of smaller, Mom-and-Pop type places that as a point of pride refuse to buy from Loveland because of their lack of customer service.
    Loveland has a decent and well educated craft team but they have failed at launching a number of brands in Richmond. Boulevard made an initial splash but I would guess sales have shrunk since launch. Just about all of the NC breweries they have brought on (Duck-Rabbit, Lonerider, Foothills) have been a bust. Sweet Water does seem to have done well, although the brewery did a good job of working to build their brand in Richmond.

    I would hope Loveland can keep the ball rolling but nothing they have done up to this point would indicate they are capable of that. Long term, one less wholesaler in Richmond means less competition and fewer choices for both retailers and end-line customers. Retailers are more knowledgeable now but the sheer volume of choices of beer available requires constant information sharing from field reps, a skill that Loveland has not proven to be exceptional at.

    To flush out the list, the brands I would monitor would be as follows:
    Racer 5 - Bear Rep has had issues producing beer in a water shortage and has pulled out of several states, will they choose to send beer to a new wholesaler when they can't service prior wholesalers?
    AVBC Gose - AVBC has had issues producing enough to meet demand and VA has not been a priority for the brewery
    Avery - what happens to rare stuff from Avery?
    Epic - Loveland had this brand, nearly killed it off and now they get it back

    Bells, Lagunitas, Founders will be fine, those are money-makers for whom ever owns their rights. But the smaller brands, especially some of the imports, will disappear from the market. Also curious where Stone ends up, either at Loveland or with Specialty.
     
  18. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader


    All excellent points!

    I ran into some of those mom and pops that despise Loveland, but also ran into a share that hated Brown as well. One bad rep or salesperson can destroy a company's image in a lot of eyes. I also recall Loveland pissing TW real bad at one point as well, so ya - they have to do some serious continual work on public perception, no doubt about it!

    Now that you name all the rollouts that Loveland has had, you are absolutely dead on about some major whiffs. Big time whiffs to be accurate. I'd almost forgotten about 1st time around with Epic as well. My goodness, I hope Avery doesn't see issues. Now that I have become a full on "Tweaker" I'll be pissed as hell if we don't see an allotment here!

    Bear Rep likely is on borrowed time here in VA unless they do like other breweries and look at opening up an east coast operation. I haven't a clue what their ambitions are and what kind of capital they have to do it though, so I guess to be on the safe side I'd better get my fill of Racer X and Hop Rod Red (or whatever it's called) before it's too late.

    As for Stone, I'm guessing that H&W had rights to DC distro while Specialty held it for VA. Unless more cash changes hands, Specialty may hold Stone, and if I were Loveland, I wouldn't want to spend the money on a brand that will possibly see a drop in retail action once people can just go to the brewery and get their stuff. May be important for outlying areas, but doubt there's enough volume there to make up for buying the rights. On the flip side (if my estimation on volume is wrong) there's a good chance that Specialty and Stone have already discussed massive bennies to them coming here. Maybe some epic launches and takeovers that they don't want to give up.
     
  19. ncaudle

    ncaudle Initiate (0) May 28, 2010 Virginia

    and yet Alewerks has been frustrated with H&W ever since their purchase of Associated several years back due to their treatment/distribution to Richmond. They've publicly said it and often apologized to RVA area establishments. Hiring dedicated acct Reps for RVA to try to push/force allocation orders through H&W did no good as well...
     
  20. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'm really baffled as to why that was the case. Seems like they have enough sought after releases where just a little amount of representation could have been a boon to any distro. Run a few tastings, a few takeovers come Bitter, Royale or BB Porter time and there ya go - happy sales time.

    If anyone form Alewerks happens to be reading this, reach out to me- I'll be more than happy to strong arm people into selling your product if it improves the amount of releases we get!!

    Seriously though, this is another example on how the three tier system screws breweries. They should have the opportunity to self distribute without paying through the nose to do so. Hybrid of self distro and going through a distro seems more than fair to me.
     
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