Malt Backbone help

Do you check the mash pH? Try and get it to 5.5 at room temperature for a dark malty beer.

You should also have the Cl:SO4 ratio at 2 for more malt forward beers.

Try another yeast as stated. If you want to stay with an American strain WY-1450 is not a bad choice. Or WLP-051.

 

Carapils/carafoam is your friend with us-05 and other chico yeast formats -this is how Sierra Nevada gets its mouthfeel. Don't be afraid to go 10-15% up to 20% (I wouldn't go more than 20% combo carapils and crystal malts if you use them) of the total grain bill. No need to stop using it.

Oats can help too.

 

The OP hasn't even brewed the imperial stout yet.

While I certainly agree that the malt character of an imperial stout is less dependent on the base malt, it still has an impact, and yeast selection can have a huge impact. That said, my impression is that the OP is talking about IPAs, and if someone were to come to me and say "the IPA I brewed with domestic 2-row and fermented with US-05 is lacking malt character and body" my first response would not be "check your water chemistry".

 

My understanding is that Sierra Nevada uses crystal 60L in their pale ale, not carapils, FWIW.

 

Looks like you and I read that post differently. He said "like" IPA not I want more malt in my IPA.
The only mention of a malt forward beer is the Imperial Stout.

If someone is getting 2nd place in comps and looking to take the next step my first response would not be "basemalt".

I do not understand your need to bicker over which advice is better, and now I have been sucked into it. With that I will say "Good day and cool story bro."

 

I disagree with people who are suggesting you change your recipe. If you like the flavors of those ingredients, you could achieve more body just by tweaking your techniques.

Honestly, it sounds like a mash problem. Are you sure you're mashing at 155, calculating strike temperatures correctly and are using an accurate thermometer? If so, what is your mash thickness? Using a thicker mash (as thick as 1:1 quarts/pound) has been a tried and true way of maintaining body in lower gravity English style beers forever. I'd think a thicker mash would do wonders to fix the problem without altering the ingredients.

 

I'm not bickering with you, I'm respectfully disagreeing with you, that's how a discussion works, why are poeple on this board so sensitive?

The OP said "Before I order an expensive imperial stout grain bill, I want to know what the deal might be." and "I believe last IPA I made was mashed 155, with US-05 Safale." I took this to mean he's had this problem with at least one IPA, and wants to avoid having the same problem with the imperial stout that he has not brewed yet, if you took it to mean something different then fine, perhaps the OP can clarify for us.

"If someone is getting 2nd place in comps and looking to take the next step my first response would not be "basemalt"."

Well then we can agree to disagree, because if someone's complaint is "I want more malt character in my beer" then I'd suggest using more characterful malt.

 

Agreed. I like to see the debate, as I learn a huge amount from reasoned discussion.

 

Bries?

<< But the common criticism of our brews

Just curious. When you say "brews", do you mean your IPA, Porter, Saison, Dubble, etc. Or do you mean your IPA /w citra, IIPA, Am. Amber, etc. It seems that you just need one small tweek, but it might be a clue as to how styles you have been successful with.

 

I've been trying to really nail down an APA recipe that I'm happy with. It's been mentioned above, but adding more complex malts like MO, or munich really do a lot for the beers. I've also noticed that I'm overhopping the style. I brought my IBUs down a peg and the beers seem to keep their malitness much more intact. an addition of naked oats or carapils can also help give the beer a bit of body. Within reason, I think there's a perceived maltiness that goes along with a thicker body. As mentioned above, I've also mash around 155, instead of 149 now. As for an IPA, you can't be afraid to change it up and see how your next brew comes out. You'll find 1 or 2 things work well for you, and they might not be the same as those things that work well for others.

Post back after your next brew session and let us know what you come up with, please!

 

I've found I get more of a pronounced "malty" flavor in my beers since I've switched to no -sparge brewing. That could help achieve the "malt backbone" you're looking for, and cut an hour off your brew day.

 

I'm not sure if you need to go to a no sparge. It might help, but it might be masking something else. I suggested adding proteins. Will they help, yes. Must you use them, no. You can make a full bodied beer without oats or whatever just like you can make a full bodied beer and sparge.

It seems like you have score sheets from competition. Don't they have a contact vehicle for the judge? Maybe if you ask directly they can help.

FWIW I'm leaning to malt flavor, mashing process or maybe carbonation.

Carbonation can play with mouthfeel and in my early force carbonation days I f'ed up some beers. But, it wasn't over all of them and it seems like you've made a lot of batches. Also normally I could swill the glass and let it gas out and the beer would be normal. A judge in a competition won't do that, but it' something that you'd most likely figure out when you're alone bonding with your beer.

Mashing. You might want to look at your whole process. I've come to realize that for my system I mash 2-3 higher then what the science calls for. Maybe it's how I measure the temp or something else, but i just do it.

Malt flavor. I share my beer with people and while they aren't HB'ers, they just seem to understand flavors better than I do. I'll listen to the negatives and I'll pay attention to the timing. I don't think that complexity is all of a sudden tasting ten flavors. It's the constant trading of flavors. And with a good beer at every time point you should be tasting something. Everything is a ratio. There could be a point where you have a malt that doesn't compete with anything, but never chimes in.

Something else not mentioned could be you're yeast. Not type, but things like size of starter. I know that I'm the lone wolf here, but...

 

As HB42 said, "it (US-05) does nothing to accentuate malt flavor and it drains beer of body." This is sometimes a desirable characteristic for an American IPA...but probably not for some old-school judges.

Getting more mouthfeel/body and maltiness is as simple as mashing higher and using a higher % of unfermentables in the form of crystal/roasted malts and flaked adjuncts like oats or barley along with a higher lovibond base malt.

 

That's what Brew-In-A-Baggers do (i.e. a very thin mash) because they have to. But with a mash tun, you can still mash at your preferred water to grain ratio, mash out with the rest of your water, then lauter all at once. It's still a no-sparge in my book, because you haven't diluted the gravity of the wort between the beginning of the (first or only) runnings and the end of the (last or only) runnings.

 

Yep its as simple as that. I get about 60% mash efficiency...so I gotta pay a few bucks more for grain, but it's worth it IMO. I have won a gold medal for my Kolsch (twice) and a third place for a Dopplebock using this method.

http://byo.com/stories/techniques/article/indices/9-all-grain-brewing/1407-skip-the-sparge

 

The way Lefty1881 phrased the question, I took it to mean he was referring to a single infusion with all of the water. That's different than a sacch rest followed by a mashout, which is what your link advocates. (The latter is what I do most of the time.)

 

Aww crap I just noticed that John Plamer article is from '02. I assumed it was the article from BYO from Nov. 2011. Guess I should have read it first. You're correct, I do a single infusion with all of the water I need for my pre-boil volume (8.5g in my case), and NO mashout. I guess the article I'm referring to isn't online yet...

 

I went from using regular 2-row to Maris Otter with a touch of aromatic malt. Did wonders for a lot of the beers I make.