Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeasts? Who's used them?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by ryane, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. ryane

    ryane Initiate (161) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    So these have been out for a bit now who has used them and how do they perform??

    In particular Im interested in the lager and cider yeasts, but info about any would be very useful!

  2. ryane

    ryane Initiate (161) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

  3. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    I am also interested in the cider yeast. Once cider season rolls around, it seems like the stores, both local and online, have trouble keeping the wyeast and white labs cider strains in stock. It would be nice to buy some dry ahead of time and not have to worry about it.
  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,716) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Premium Member

    First I heard of them...
  5. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,455) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    New to me.
  6. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Sitting on a couple packs each of the English strains, but haven't brewed with them yet. Will repost experience when I use them.
    inchrisin likes this.
  7. Soneast

    Soneast Crusader (769) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    I brewed a English Mild with the Newcastle Dark. The beer tastes clean, with mostly a biscuit malt and earthy hop flavors carrying through, I was somewhat expecting more fruity esters from the yeast, just based on my experiences with liquid English strains, though maybe it just needs to be fermented warmer. I re-hydrated the yeast and pitched into 5.25g of 1.037 wort, fermented at 65°F for 1 week, with a measured FG of 1.012 for 67% AA, which, for me, is typical with English strains. The yeast fermented quick and dropped out clear within 7 days. I had it kegged and was drinking it after only 14 days. My experience went good enough to where I won't hesitate to try other strains from Mangrove Jack.
  8. IPAdams

    IPAdams Disciple (336) Jun 10, 2013 Illinois

    I brewed an imperial Oktoberfest with the Newcastle dark and just brewed an IPA with the workhorse, I haven't tasted either yet but I will say that both had very vigorous airlock activity within 12 hours. Neither will be ready for about another month or so but I will report back once they are.
  9. jncastillo87

    jncastillo87 Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2013 Texas

    I used the M44 for a pale ale and it turned out fantastic. I just brewed another pale and used the M44 again. To me it has a much cleaner palate and doesnt dry the beer out too much like US-05 can. Really clean and clear beer with high floc. I am a fan.
  10. sbeaton

    sbeaton Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2011 New Jersey

    I've used the Workhorse in a blonde ale that I wanted lager like taste from and it came out great. Enough so that I used it in an Oktoberfast ale for my brother's wedding. I have also used the m44 in a session IPA. And recently used the m07 in a dark mild (Eagle Rock Solidarity Clone) and that turned out better than when I used to use s04 in that recipe. I am currently splitting a batch of pumpkin ale between bry 97 and m44. I am looking for a clean strain with better floculation that s05, so far bry97 seems like it could be it. My session ipa didn't seem that clear with m44 but that could be due to the over 60% malt bill of wheat.
  11. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Awesome beer. If you ever want insider information I can probably get it from their brewers.
  12. sbeaton

    sbeaton Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2011 New Jersey

    Just saw this, thank you for the offer. I am using the recipe the brewers provided on Can You Brew It. I am hoping my cousin who travels for business gets me a bomber next time he is in LA so I can compare. It really is a great beer and more importantly my wife likes it.
  13. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Picked up 2 packs of cider and a pack each of the burton union and Newcastle dark today. Gonna try some sort of ESB or English IPA with the burton and a robust porter with the Newcastle. The ciders will be for cider once cider season rolls around. I'll report back with results as they come in.
  14. leedorham

    leedorham Crusader (720) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Just ordered one pack each of the Cider, Newcastle, and Burton. We'll see how they work.
  15. Soneast

    Soneast Crusader (769) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    Just brewed an HBC-366 Pale Ale with the West Coast M44 strain. I used my typical grain bill for the malt base that I use in all my pale ales, and single hopped the beer with the experimental HBC-366 hop. Needed a clean fermenting yeast, such as WLP001 or 1056, so decided to give the M44 a go. I re-hydrated the yeast and pitched into 5.25g of 1.058 wort, fermented at 64°F for 2 weeks, with a measured FG of 1.009 for 84% AA, which, I also typically attain with the respective liquid yeast counterparts. Not sure why, but the yeast took at least 48 hours to become highly active. I left for vacation on the 2nd day after pitching so not sure when exactly it took off, but it was definitely after 48 hours. It attenuated fine, and there are no off-flavors so I assume everything went as planned, lol. Either way, I was happy with the yeast, despite the slow start. I may just have to use it again. :slight_smile:
  16. Gilmango

    Gilmango Aspirant (226) Jul 17, 2007 California

    Is there any info on the sources of these different strains? Also I haven't seen them in LHBS but see they are from NZ and are costing just under $4 in the US so that's good given that other dry yeasts have gotten even spendier lately (seemingly in reaction to the prices which wy and wl are able to charge for their liquid yeasts).
  17. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    An update on the burton union yeast. Just bottled an English IPA that used it. Achieved 80% attenuation, but I mashed pretty low and there was 4% sugar in the recipe. Pretty hazy, but I can't tell if it's due to poor flocc'ing, or from the dry hops at this point. Slightly minerally and has a bit of an apple ester going on. I'll try to update again once its carbed. Brewing a porter with the Newcastle Dark Ale tomorrow.
  18. jeebeel

    jeebeel Initiate (179) Jun 17, 2003 Texas

    Thumbs up to the bohemian lager strain. I brewed a traditional bock with it about 10 weeks ago and just tapped the keg tonight. Clean, smooth, clear, good malty taste. Will definitely be using this again.
  19. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Initiate (0) May 11, 2007 Minnesota

    I have been wanting to try a few of these out...more dry options are good since they store for a long time. I only buy dry anymore, since my club started a yeast bank it is nice to have dry on hand just in case.
    jlpred55 and pweis909 like this.
  20. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Well, the Englishy IPA with Burton Union is at a point where I would feel comfortable really giving a bit of a review of it. First off, this is not the floc'er that we tend to think of when we think of English yeasts. In fact, I would say that it doesn't even floc as well as US-05. This yeast definitely got up to the high end of it's temp range, but there is nothing too off about it, a touch of roses, but mostly clean with a bit of red apple fruitiness. Mouthfeel is soft, but the hop bitterness is a whipcrack. With this only being the second beer I'm drinking after moving to a new city, I can't really say if that's due to the water profile here, the recipe, or the yeast. However, I will say that the other beer that is drinking (West Coast IPA with US-05) since the move is also a bit more firm in bitterness than what I got used to IBU estimates equating to in sensory analysis, and it utilized a similar amount of body building grains to this one, without the gentle, mouth-filling quality. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that this yeast is good for producing balanced beers, with a bit of apple esters, full malt character, but won't take away from the hops. I might try this guy out again in something that is a bit less extreme in hop character in a month or so when there will be less in the way of temp swings that the ol' swamp cooler can't handle. Maybe just an ESB at the high end of acceptable SRM for the winter months. In other words, tasty and promising, but brewing an American IPA with English ingredients at the high end of its temperature range with a largely unknown water profile probably wasn't the best test run for it.
    jsullivan02130 and pweis909 like this.
  21. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Update on Newcastle Dark:
    Took a gravity reading today, only got 62% apparent attenuation, but the robust porter I tossed it in was pretty heavy on roast and caramel malts. However, great, smooth flavor, roast is balanced, and there is a bit of a ripe plum ester. I'll update again once its been in the bottle for a bit.
  22. IPAdams

    IPAdams Disciple (336) Jun 10, 2013 Illinois

    I have used the Newcastle, Workhorse and West Coast and with all my attenuation was a bit on the low side, with only 1 of the 5 beers I have brewed using them hitting my expected FG of 1.010. While there are many other factors that play into FG (Mash temp, Aeration, etc...) I have only had a problem hitting FG with these yeasts. I would definitely try 1 or 2 of them out and see how they work for you but for me I will likely just stick with 04, 05 or Danstar when using dry yeast.
  23. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Not really an update, more of a confirmation:
    The Newcastle Dark is a low attenuating, medium-hard floccing, fast yeast that delivers a smooth roastiness and mouthfeel with some dark fruit esters. I'd definitely recommend it for dark milds and sweet stouts.
    DubbelMan and pweis909 like this.
  24. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Just bottled the saison I brewed with the Belgian ale strain. Went from 1.054 to 1.001. Layers of fruity esters, notably melon. Great mouthfeel, that could be the 20% wheat malt, it doesn't feel thin either way. No noticeable alcohol. A bit of a peppery bite. Slight tartness. I'll update in a bit once it's fully carbed.

    Also, the first cider that I did with the cider strain is almost fully clear at 3 weeks. Fartiness (you cidermakers know what I'm talking about) ended about a week ago. Probably will bottle it next week.
    #24 MrOH, Dec 18, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  25. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,716) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Premium Member

    Wow. That Belgian strain sounds really promising. I'm currently enjoying a saision made with Belle Saison, but melon? Count me among the curious.
    Ford likes this.
  26. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Bottled the cider today. That yeast doesn't waste any time. Crystal clear at 4 weeks (I'm used to it taking around 6-8). I did use pectin enzyme per manufacturer's instructions, as always. There is still a touch of sulphur that I expect to clean up in the bottle. I ferment ciders dry, so they always taste like apple-y white wine to some extent, but there is a bit more of the fruit left than normal. As always, I'll post back once it carbs up.
  27. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Update on Belgian Ale and Cider:
    Belgian Ale is dope for a saison. Easy, carefree ferment. Reminds me of 3711, but a bit more forceful in aroma and flavor, even when fermented in the low 70s. Manufacturer recommends temps of 80+, so it may morph into something different. Lots of citrus, just a touch of bubblegum, a little background earthiness, and some peppery spice as well. Also, dry as hell, I wouldn't be afraid to add a touch of honey malt or some crystal. Not thin-bodied, though. They say that it is good for any Belgian style, but I don't really see it, just a bit too expressive as a saison yeast.

    Cider yeast is also a winner, so far. Produced a clear cider the fastest of the cider yeasts I've used, and was enjoyable once carbed, without having to wait too long. I may have to do a side-by-side-by-side with wyeast and white labs next year with the same orchards cider blend to determine the best one. I'll see what it ages into, but I think that is more about the raw cider than it is the yeast.

    Also, bottled a beer with the Burton Union strain today. Don't want to go too into the flavor until it has carbed a bit, couldn't really separate it from the hops too well, as I have never used mosaic before, but the beer tasted pretty good, if green. However, this yeast floccs really weird. It's like big, chunky boogers in a pile, not a well defined cake. Kinda upsetting, the GF was pretty hesitant about tasting it.
    Gilmango and pweis909 like this.
  28. ryane

    ryane Initiate (161) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    theres a huge thread on hbtalk where a guy did side by side trials with a ton of different yeasts and the same cider, I forgot what won the early tastings, but in the aged bottles the WY cider yeast won hands down, and I tend to feel this same way about that strain

    as to your second point, I would agree if you were using actual hard cider apples (sharps, bitters, bitter-sweets), but Im guessing like most others your using table apples, and in that case IMO the yeast plays just as big of a role
  29. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Nope, I currently get my cider raw from an orchard that grows varieties specifically to go into ciders. Some of them are interesting as hand fruit, but most are a bit too tannic, tart, hard, mealy, or some combination. Nice thing about being near Appalachia.

    Also, that Homebrewtalk thread is far too fucking huge. I remember looking at it when I first started making ciders a few years ago and gave up around page 8.
    inchrisin likes this.
  30. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (747) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Anyone try the M-07 British Ale? Equivalent strain in WY or WL?
  31. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,112) May 21, 2010 Texas

    This one looks in triguing, do report back on how it comes out. I think I can get this locally and will have to try it.
  32. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    pweis909 and AlCaponeJunior like this.
  33. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Alright, the second beer I've brewed with the Burton Union strain is carbed up, so here's what I think of it. The beer is a SMaSH blonde ale, Simpson's golden promise/mosaic. Too much late hop character for BJCP, but I wanted a beer that I would actually drink.

    This yeast doesn't flocc very well. So, add finings, cold crash, whatever if you want clear beer. Definitely has some esters, I would say red apple or pear. Delivers a very soft mouthfeel. Attenuates well enough if you treat it correctly (mash regiment/pitch rate/oxygen).

    I don't know that this would be a regular player in my rotation. The pomme-fruit esters don't really do it for me. It might work nicely in an easy drinking, malt forward type thing for the fall. Probably be really good for a change of pace to do a Scottish 80/- or an Octoberfest with this yeast if you're not looking to enter it in any competitions.
  34. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    According to the description on RebelBrewer, it's supposed to be close to wlp007. Bottled my Export India Porter that used it today, but there is too much going on in that beer to really give any sort of review. Attenuation was about where I expected it to be given the grain bill and mash temp. Nothing was off on it. Didn't clear as well as I remember wlp007 doing.
  35. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Disciple (305) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    Going off on a tangent, if you'l recall, US-05 was once called US-56, until Wyeast cried trademark foul (actually, I felt that was good for Fermentis, since it was a tacit acknowledgement that it was eerily similar to 1056). I'm wondering if the name 'M-07' will suffer a similar fate.
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  36. MrOH

    MrOH Crusader (795) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    After several months aging, the original cider I made with the Mangrove Jack's Cider yeast just doesn't "pop". It's like all of the components of a quality dry cider are there: the fruit, acidity, and tannins, but they just don't mesh well and make for an appetizing drink. It has definitely fallen apart over time. A similar cider using the same base sweet cider and the white labs cider yeast is much more palatable, although the sulphur has not faded in that one. I've got an "Imperial" cider using the MJ yeast in secondary w/ bourbon soaked oak right now, but if it isn't awesome after a bit in bottles, I'll pass on this stuff for ciders in the future.

    The weizenbock that's fermenting currently using the bavarian wheat yeast, however, is blowing off all kinds of wonderful aromas. More green apple than banana at the moment. We'll see how it turns out. If it continues in this manner throughout, I might try it in a cider next season, as well as a munich II/dark wheat/caramel wheat/choc. wheat dunkelweiss.

    The belgian strain is definitely gonna see a good amount of action this summer. I've really like what it brought to the couple of parties it was invited to at this point over belle saison.
    Ford likes this.
  37. MillerSquared

    MillerSquared Initiate (0) May 10, 2014

    Have used a number of the Mangrove Jack's yeast so far - only had one issue with low attenuation with the Newcastle Dark - only finished at 1.018- but was also my first time for a partial mash. Gave a great Brown Ale, a little sweet.

    Used West Coast in a Dark IPA dropped from 1.08 to 1.018 in about a week. Used the West Coast in a Pale Ale and the Bavarian Wheat in a Honey Berry Wheat to good results.
    Used the Workhorse in Kolsch that was outstanding - crisp,clean. (first place hybrid in St. Louis MicroFest)

    Getting ready to bottle a English Summer Ale using Burton Union yeast, dropped from 1.05 to 1.013 in less than 6 days.

    One think I have noticed in switch vs. other dry yeast - little slower to see airlock activity and not as vigorous, but it is definitely doing the job based on Sp Gr checks. I do not rehydrate. Aerate, pitch on top and let it go. If you use Beer Smith - check number of packets suggested for dry yeast - have used two on more than one occasion for Sp Gr over 1.05 for 5.5 gallon batches (anything finish at 6% or higher seems it will need 2 packs)
  38. IrishHockey

    IrishHockey Initiate (0) Oct 12, 2012 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    I've been using the M-44 for almost everything lately. I've done IPA's, PA's, brown ale, and a KBS kinda sorta clone that's awesome. Currently I have it fermenting in a imperial IPA.

    The homebrew shop that I go to said m-44 is dry PacMan yeast.
  39. nozferatu46

    nozferatu46 Initiate (143) Mar 24, 2008 Indiana

    I've got a beer going right now with the Workhorse.

    I fermented around 62 degrees, and it is very lager like. It's taking forever to finish out, it was down to 1.014 after ten days, and I'm still getting a little activity (It's now sitting at room temperature in hopes it gets down another 4 points or more).
  40. NiceFly

    NiceFly Aspirant (289) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Anyone have any idea the alcohol tolerance of Workhorse? I do not see it listed on their site.