Marshall Wharf-Ace Hole cans 7/12 Batch off?

Don't have any experience myself but people mentioned a similar buttery taste in the Marshall Wharf Cans thread last week if you can find it.

 

Yep. Butter = Diacetyl. Could be a number of things ranging from infection to bad yeast handling. Or maybe it's intended by the brewer. I've gotten Diacetyl in a few Marshall Wharf beers (mostly on draft), especially the Ace Hole. It's a compound produced by every fermentation, but if you know what you're doing, it's easy to control. Marshall Wharf makes some good beer, but being a brewpub, their QC isn't quite up to snuff.

 

First, I love beer. I have brewed my own for years and typically have 100-300 bottles on hand. I also keep a tap system in my home, where I serve various craft beers. I am a fan of the local brewery here in Westchester County, NY (Captain Lawrence), and often keep their Imperial on tap.

Second, I love Maine. Built a house there in the '90's. Sold it a few years ago, and now rent, mostly in Camden.

When visiting local breweries away from home, I always stock up. One would think I would be a good customer for this brewery.

I went there twice last year, and both times it was closed. Guess I should have checked before making the drive to Belfast. This time, I did check, and my wife and I pulled up 45 mins before closing time. We had our Golden Retriever with us (sweet, quiet dog, who btw has been in Captain Lawrence and other breweries). With him behind me, I poked my head in the open door, and asked "Is the dog ok?" I was met by a woman who turned up her nose, and with an unabashed sneer, said "No! Please!!" This was NOT said in a friendly or quiet tone. Accepting this, of course, I turned to tie him up outside, and as I was doing so I noticed her look to her side, roll her eyes, and sort of snort at someone outside my view, in a "can you believe this jerk" tone.

OK, fine. Some people don't like dogs. I accept that. I could live without the attitude, but fine.

As I finished tying up my dog, I turned back around to find a man standing in my face, who asked, in a very UN-friendly tone, "Can I give you a heads up?" I was sort of startled by this, but noticing his Marshall Wharf Brewery shirt, I just said, "OK". I was then given a ridiculously long "lecture" about how there is "rat poison all around here", and be warned your dog could eat it and it might kill him. This was not just a quick, friendly "be careful", it was a totally weird, off-the-wall, out of nowhere, unpleasant, unsmiling, finger-pointing... I'm not sure what noun to use. It really felt like a "get the f*** out of here" kind of lecture.

While this was going on, my wife walked up behind this friendly fellow, and with eyes wide as he walked off, asked me, "What was that all about?" I stood there for a minute, stunned, and then said, "Let's go." And we left. First time I have ever walked away from a brewery (or vineyard) anywhere in the world. The whole thing was just totally bizarre.

Even in the hard, cold-hearted world of NYC, at any brewery I've ever visited, at least SOMEBODY offers a smile and a welcome. That's how people grow their businesses and build good will and loyal customers. I remembered, as we were leaving Marshall Wharf, that someone a few years ago had told me, "The people who run that place are jerks." I take such statements with a grain of salt, and make my own judgments based on my own experiences. I now reach the same conclusion.

Before closing, I'll say this -- I expect people will come on and attack me for this review and tell all about how nice everyone is and how great their beers are, and what an a-hole I am for not even basing my review on a sampling of any beers. OK, I get it, I understand. There will always be loyal customers (usually those with fewer choices than I have). Fine. Enjoy your beers! My review is based on my experience.

 

I wasn't all that impressed by Ace Hole (picked up some cans in Damariscotta earlier this month) - I didn't get a Shipyard amount of butter, but it definitely was present. I ended up giving the rest of the 4 pack away.

 

That's quite a testimonial! I've never felt that unwelcome at a brewery, although I have noticed how a lot of craft breweries don't really get the customer service thing. They should not have treated you like that, but to be fair, they were obviously trying to protect your dog (or maybe just reduce their liability). They just went about it in the wrong way. Maybe something bad happened in the past with a pet at their brewery, who knows.

Although I've never heard anyone badmouth the MW guys, they do seem like an odd bunch. I like their variety and creativity, but to be completely honest, for every one good beer they make, there are two utterly mediocre offerings. Diacetyl issues and underattenuation seem to be recurring themes in their brews. The MW IPAs are just sweet messes IMO. I was a big fan of their Rauchbier and a dry-hopped Wheatwine they had at a brewfest last year. MW is basically just a brewpub, and like most brewpubs in New England, they are pretty inconsistent.

 

I honestly don't believe they were trying to protect my dog. I don't believe that at all (although I appreciate the charitable nature of your suggestion). In the first place, the woman who "greeted" me at the door made obvious her disdain for dogs, and/or for me for being so outrageously rude as to ask if I could bring him inside (it's not a "fancy" setting, for those who haven't been there, it's a kind of dirty, rough and tumble, on-the-wharf place, and the door was wide open). She certainly wasn't interested in protecting my dog.

And the guy who "warned" me did not do it in a friendly way, at all. Anyone who actually cared about the dog would have taken an entirely different tone.

Sadly, I think these people are just creeps, and they took a disliking to me immediately (maybe it was my NY license plate, or my minivan... maybe it was the kayaks on my roof, maybe it was my dog, maybe it was my arms full of tattoos... who knows). Or maybe they just didn't like someone showing up that close to closing time. Or maybe they're just jerks to everyone, or to people randomly, or to those they don't think are "like them". Who the hell knows. For my part, I don't care. I'll not go back, that's for sure.

 

Had the ace in the hole tonight on draft and it was drinking really nice. Perhaps you are getting confused as it contains sorachi ace hops, which is a funky hop. I thought the lemon really came through which is what you get from sorachi.

 

Not particularly great customer service, but you really shouldn't have brought your dog to a bar. There is a much, much nicer way to say it, but you really shouldn't have to be told to leave the pooch at home.

 

Unfortunately it seems lots of dog owners think their dogs have to come everywhere with them and should be allowed anywhere.

 

My dog is my favorite drinking buddy.

 

You know, I totally understand your point. I really do. I do NOT think I should be allowed to take my dog everywhere I go. Seriously. In much of Maine, dogs are welcome. I regularly eat at very nice restaurants, where my dog is allowed to sit at my feet. Routinely, hosts and waiters bring water and snacks for the dog. This was the case, for example, at a very cool place directly across from the main LL Bean building just two weeks prior to this incident. And I could cite many, many other examples. And as I said, my dog has been with me in the local brewery here in NY, more than once.

That said, I would NEVER presume to be able to bring him in, ANYWHERE. I can't stress that enough. I do NOT have any attitude or assumption that I should be able to bring him in, ANYWHERE. It's always totally up to the proprietor, and I ALWAYS am respectful and totally defer to their wishes. WITHOUT ATTITUDE.

And that's what I did, here. I was NOT in ANY WAY insistent on having him in there. The place is a rough looking place, door open, on a working wharf, in mid-coast Maine. It's about as "fancy" as a Bronx waterfront fish market (and yes, I'm familiar with those). And I IN NO WAY presumed that my dog had "right" to be there. You have to read my post carefully. This was totally about the weird, off-the-wall, attitude of the MWB proprietors.

BTW, if any of you are in the area of Westchester County, NY, I'd invite you to meet up and have a beer. Captain Lawrence does tastings on Thursday and Friday afternoons. You can meet The Evil Dog in person, and I'll buy the beers ($1 each... ha ha).

Mark

 

Sounds like a plan :-)

 

Yeah, Big Time Butter (Diacetyl) flavor in this batch! I like some of their beers, or I should say, I've had great batches of some of their beers but there seems to be too many off batches that I tend to stay away! I just feel that for the price point and the Quality Control issues it's hard to keep going back when your not sure what you're going to get! I must admit that I have never been to visit the brewery but would like to sample some of their stuff directly from the source! Admittedly I was dissapointed after being told how great this beer was from (in my oppinion) reputable sources but I will try it again!

 

It's likely the butter flavor is due to the high amount of Sorachi Ace hops used. The beer does have a buttery flavor but is noticeably different than diacetyl, at least to me. As far as I know it is also brewed with american ale yeast, which is very hard to mess up fermentation wise. I suppose Shipyard could squeeze diacetyl out of that yeast, but not anybody who's fermenting for more than a few days.

 

I've never heard of that before, but I suppose it's possible. Could be some strange yeast-hop flavor synergy going on. Either way I don't find Ace Hole to be a good Pale Ale. I've experienced diacetyl in other MW brews, so I just figured it was more of the same. It was not classic, in-your-face buttered popcorn a la Shipyard Export, but diacetyl can take on a different character in hoppy Pales in my experience.

VDKs can still be high in beers with American Ale yeast, it's just a matter of which compound is more prevalent. Diacetyl is far more flavor active (by a magnitude of about 10) than 2,3-pentanedione.

 

Sorachi has a buttery flavor? I get all lemon and at the worst a soapy plastic flavor. And I've had plenty of buttery hoppy beers made with american ale yeast. Its not foolproof.

 

There's also this thread re: this - http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/marshall-wharf-cans.106028/#post-1572971

Cans from early July tasted completely different. Now I just sort of stay away from them.

 

Wikipedia says: Imparts an unusual lemon/"bubblegum" and dill pickle flavour