Mash Tun Advice

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Granitebeard, Jan 25, 2018.

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  1. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    So I am pondering getting a mash tun. Even if it will still only be usable during warmer months when I can use my burner (or I suppose I could figure out boil off rates in my wonderful -10 to +20 degree weather). Currently I just do BIAB, and have had good results, just my issue was keeping mash temp where I want it. Still being "comfortable" in the summer doesn't mean that in an hour my kettle won't cool down 20+ degrees. Thus requiring me to go out and turn the burner on numerous times over the mash, all the time worrying that I will scorch the mash bag I am using.

    Which is why I turn here to get some advice on the process of owning/using a mash tun.
    1) I don't really plan to do larger then 5 gallon batches, but still kind of want the option to do a high OG beer. Is a 10 gallon tun large enough?
    2a) I have no issues making my own from a cooler. I know there are components out there, along with "how to" articles, but does anyone have any experience with buying vs making one, and a use difference?
    2b) Anything to look for in particular when buying a cooler to convert? I see a lot of 10 to 20 gallon coolers, but am not sure how to best pick one for this application. Any reason for round vs square/rectangular coolers?
    3) Am I correct in this assumption of sparging: I will basically mash with the 1-1.5 qrt per lb of grain, mash, drain all the wort, and then use a set amount (thank you brewcipher for telling me) of water heated to X degrees poured into the tun, stirred a couple times, let sit, then drained all of it out again? This is what I gathered from a couple "how to sparge" articles I read today. Thus I won't need a HLT really.
    4) I still really don't understand fly sparging, is it better, worse or not really different from the "batch" style I roughly outlined above?
    5) Even with struggling to hold temperature, and not being able to do my highest OG brews with BIAB, i still typically manage a 75%-82% efficiency. Would I see similar results once I dial in the mash tun set up?

    Just trying to get a feel for this when I try to move in this direction.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    1) A 10 gallon tun would be big enough for most 5 gallon batches. If you're not sure, and since you use BrewCipher, play around with some high OG recipes and see. If you exceed the mash tun's capacity, BC will tell you.

    2) If you make your own tun, it will be cheaper and it will be to your own specs. But there's nothing wrong with buying one, if it's what you want. I like rectangular coolers rather than round, because they are shallower, and so tend to get less stuck lauters.

    3) Pretty good description of batch sparging. You'll probably also want to vorlauf. And no, you won't necessarily need an HLT.

    4) Fly sparging is, all other things being equal, more efficient than batch sparging, which in turn is more efficient than no-sparge. My view on fly sparging is that it's more work and takes longer, for no benefit other than improved mash efficiency. I prefer no-sparge for most beers. I like the malt flavors better that way, though I have never A/B'd the results.

    5) You should be able to get mash efficiency that's at least as good, and probably better with batch sparging than with BIAB (which is a form of no-sparge). But make sure to buy/build a tun with very little dead-space, or you'll be giving back the efficiency gain.
     
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  3. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I have a 10 gallon beverage style cooler and that is pushing the limits for no sparge on a 5 gallon batch. I also have a 25 gallon rectangle cooler and I like it much better. Lautering is easier like vikeman mentioned. You could also get a mash bag big enough for your cooler and essentially mashing in your cooler bag rather than kettle and have much better heat retention.
     
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  4. HotWaterMusic

    HotWaterMusic Initiate (0) Apr 6, 2017 California

    FWIW I switched the other way and went from a tun to a BIAB. The cooler mash tun will lose more heat than most people advertise, especially when it's cold, preheating will help. It tends to mean you can't mash a beer at the bottom end of alpha temps (149* or so) because you will drop into a real slow enzymatic range too soon. The 2Xwalled stainless tun that are coming out now are probably a better option but at a real premium. Because you know... stainless. You could always add a false bottom to your kettle you use now. You won't scorch your bag, I've seen some that have legs. Literally sit it on the floor of the kettle and pull it out with tongs or something before the boil.
     
  5. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I mash in a 15-16 gallon Walmart rectangle cooler for big beers.

    I also mash in the late fall,early winter in Vermont, so, make sure you dump in some hot water first to warm up the tun then add mash water and then grain.

    For session beers 5% and lower, I use a 10 gallon round upright cooler and get better efficiency. Don't know why but that works for me.
     
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  6. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I use a converted keg that was retired with a jaybird false bottom. It's adirect fire set up. I like it a lot. I've got about $55 invested, and space is never an issue. I have done huge beers (1.125) and moderate gravity ten gallon batches with no issues.
     
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  7. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I assume you insulated the outside of the keg?
     
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  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    The amount of heat loss is very dependent on the brand/model of cooler. Coleman Xtreme is very good. I have the heat loss parameter set to 2F per hour in my software, and in general, it seems to be a little less with most batches I do. I've done plenty of measurements where the average was less than 1F. Of course, that heat loss is also influenced by the difference between the mash/tun temp and the ambient temp. (Mashing outdoors in the winter would not be a good idea with a cooler.)

    Preheating should not be necessary for any mash tun, and (anyway) has nothing to do with (or should have nothing to do with) heat loss to the environment over time. Pre-heating is what a lot of people do to account for the fact that the mash tun itself will steal some heat from the water. But a better solution is to compensate for that with a slightly higher strike water temperature. Decent brewing software should do that by accounting for the thermal mass of the mash tun, in the context of the strike water and grain amounts.
     
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  9. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    Well that is a lot to think over. Mostly what cooler am I going to find to convert, a 10 to15 gal would probably be good, and then see what it will take to convert vs buy the pre done up igloo ones. Might look for some reviews of some of the stainless ones out there but the price is a hard bit to chew...

    I think I need to look up different sparging methods more before I pull the trigger. Would rather buy all at once then decided I need the HLT down the road, even if making them my self.
     
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  10. StupidlyBrave

    StupidlyBrave Zealot (507) Jan 2, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I have a 36qt Coleman Xtreme which I always though was too small for its intended purpose, and too small to make into a mash tun. So I bought the big Igloo drink cooler and converted that.
    Sometimes I wish I would have converted the smaller one just for lower gravity beers. The heat loss would be much more manageable. Since I already have the cooler, I may end up doing that.
    Today, I missed my mash temp by 2 degrees. So I boiled an extra quart of water to hit my desired temp (adjustment took 23 minutes to execute). I was back down 2 degrees by the time the mash was done.
     
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  11. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Reasonably priced false bottoms are more readily available for round 10 gal. coolers and keggles. They work fine with maybe some rice hulls for adjunct batches and floury millings.
     
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  12. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I hate false bottoms, I'm a bazooka tube guy. Nice a easy to clean.
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Bazooka tubes/ toilet braids work great with rectangular coolers.
     
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  14. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Toilet braided here
     
  15. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I've used both...6 of one... half dozen of another., if installed and grain milled properly
     
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  16. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I have one on both but definitely notice more success on my rectangle cooler. Any reason for that?
     
  17. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I didn't, but have seen some that are insulated. I can direct fire and recirculate so temps can be easily maintained.
     
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  18. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I use stainless steel pot scrubbers as cheap insurance between the pickup tube and false bottom.

    I wonder about bazooka tubes and lautering efficiency with all things being equal. How to brew used to have some interesting reading about it. I should pick up the new one and see if it has been expanded as well.
     
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    What kind of issues do you have with the BT/Braid in your round cooler? Also, are both of your BTs/Braids the same?
     
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