Melanoidin Comparisons

Thanks very much for posting the recipe utahbeerdude! I went through dozens of pilsner recipes yesterday,focusing on the addition of Vienna malt, and came across a range of 7.5% - 22% in terms of addition. The 22% addition only pertained to one recipe, so excluding that, the range was 7.5% - 13.6%, with most of the recipes falling at the lower end of that range. Thus, based on the many recipes posted, a range of about 8-9% seems to be a common amount to add.

I haven't done a similar analysis of Munich malt yet, since it seems that Vienna is a more common choice for light pilsners, likely due to the deeper color of Munich malt and other flavors that don't seem to contribute as well to lighter pilsners. Other recipes included both a combination of Vienna and Munich. Of course there were also other additions for increased foam, head retention, mouthfeel, etc.

One multiple award winning recipe from BYO for Pilsner Urquell used an addition of 7.5% of Vienna, which is at the lower end of the range. Of course none of this is scientific, but at least if gives me a starting range to work with. So I'll start with about 8% and vary the amount from there. This is about 3-1/2 times as much Melanoidin malt as I usually add, which somewhat shows the intensity of that malt. Of course Vienna malt adds flavors that Melanoidin malt doesn't have, and some of that may actually complement or mask the melanoidins contained in it.

 

Can you elaborate on this, TheBeerery? I'm here to learn.

 

Thank you most kindly for this information, TheBeerery! It's most informative, and has helped me learn considerably more about modern German practices. As I said before, I have very little experience with using Vienna or Munich malts, and will now experiment using Munich malts when making German style pilsners, rather than Vienna malt. I was earlier under the impression that the relatively larger amounts of Munich malt would tend to add too much color to the final result, and since I like my pilsners as relatively light in color, I will experiment to get the right balance.

I also look forward to researching one of those two brewing books that you recommended (Wolfgang Kunze). It should be much more instructive than many of the popular books on brewing techniques, which do not always seem to have their facts correct. This type of information is very useful, especially when reviewing various "clone" recipies, and determining which ones vary too much from the original parameters, and can therefore be quickly dismissed.

 

A few malts like Melanoidin, Munich malt and Vienna malt, contain various (undetermined) amounts of melanoidins, a process achieved by heating the malt for a specific temperature and period of time (called Maillard Reaction). The melanoidins are polymers formed when sugars and amino acids combine at high temperature and low water activity. It's the same as the brown crust you get when you toast bread. The decoction process also produces melnoidoins when the grain used for your beer is boiled for a specific length of time. You can taste this in decocted beers such as Pilsner Urquell. Malts like Melanoidin, Munich and Vienna are sometimes added to beers to give it a similar flavor as if it were decocted. Melanoidins are also added to provide color (think of the golden color in a Pilsner or the darker festival beers), improve palate fullness, and to intensify the aroma.

 

For further reference:

Source:

Technology Brewing and Malting, Wolfgang Kunze, 3rd International Edition, Berlin Germany, 2004.

Vienna Malt (Page 180)

Vienna malt is used to correct over-pale malts, to produce “golden” beer and to improve palate fullness. For this

- A steeping degree of 44 to 46% is used,

- The malt is normally modified and not overmodified,

- It is cured at 90 to 95 C and thereby

- A colour of 6 to 8 EBC is obtained.

Vienna malt is used up to 100% for the production of “Marzen” beer, festival beers, strong export beers and pub brewery beers.

Dark malt (Munich type) (Page 179-180)

To produce dark malt all the conditions which lead to the formation of aroma-producing Maillard products (melanoidins) are favoured. These include:

- Processing barley with a higher protein content,

- Intensive germination at temperatures of 18 to 20 C,

- A higher degree of steeping of 48 to 50%,

- A moist-warm initial drying or withering,

- A curing temperature of 100 to 105 C for w to 5 h.

- A colour of 15 to 25 EBC,

- A fine-coarse difference of 2.0 to 3.0%.

A malt with 13 to 15 EBC (Munich pale) provides the basis for the dark beer character and is used up to 85% of the grist. A malt with 20 to 25 EBC (Munich dark), when used as 25 to 40% of the grist, helps to intensify the aroma. This is particularly important when employing a short mashing procedure.

Up to 85% dark malt of the Munich type is used to emphasize the typical dark beer character of dark beers, festival beers and strong beers.

 

I wish I could afford to purchase it, as I prefer actual books for reference. The price is about $500 used. So I had to be resourceful.

 

To add to the discussion, I have recently read a comment by several people on Brulosophy that nowadays Vienna malt is basically a mixture of Munich and Pilsner malts. To simulate Vienna (3.5 srm) you would add about 16% Munich Light (9.5 srm) to 84% Pilsner Malt (1.7 srm). Has anyone else heard about this?

 

Here's are some of the comments:

"I work at a brewery in Germany and the Brewmaster told me that a classmate of his (from brewing school) took a job at Weyermann after their studies and this classmate apparently told my boss that the Vienna malt is just Munich 1 blended off with their Pale Ale. Could have been bullshit, obviously, but why would he lie about something like that. I’ll ask my boss about it again today."

[later]

"So, my boss confirmed that was what his former classmate told him. Apparently, Weyermann just blend off a base malt (he couldn’t remember if it was Pale or Pils) with Munich until the blend reaches the correct EBC. To speculate further, their Barke line consists of Pils, Munich and Vienna. Coincidence?"

Comment by another person:

"On a tour of the Stamag maltings in Vienna, the maltser told us that nowadays Vienna is a blend of Munich and Pilsner. We were surprised about this but he insisted this was the case everywhere. I assume he was referring to maltings in the German-speaking world. I asked some brewers about this after, and one of them said that he had heard this before from another brewer."

 

That's what I suspected. I'm not sure how such rumors get started. It's like saying that a medium roasted coffee tastes the same as a dark roasted coffee mixed with some light roasted coffee.