Michael Jackson's World-Class Beers

This could explain the gap between my experience and Zimbo's, but .5% is hardly negligible.

 

Salvator - several have written that they think it is not what it was. Ron Pattinson for one. He is not a kid. The Andechs Doppelbock Dunkel I had about 6 weeks back was one I really enjoyed again in Germany. Did not have a Salvator.

Jever just does not seem as bitter as it did when I lived in Germany 13 years back. It is not as bitter as the clone I brew to the published 44 IBUs in the 1995 book I have. Then there is the article in the OCB that states that the average bitterness of German Pils has gone down. The maximum in the 100s of samples tested was 38 IBUs, vs 50 in the 70s.

 

The idea that you should respect what other people think because "they've been around the block" is much worse to me that the arrogance of thinking that you know everything there is to know about beer.

Drink what you want to, enjoy what you enjoy, and don't give a hoot about what other people think.

 

Is Ron comparing it with the beer of 30 years ago, or the beer of 300 years ago -- as he often does?

Okay -- clarification, but you're comparing apples and oranges now. Have you had the Jever back in Germany? Because import Pasteurization can do so much to kill a delicate beer's flavors. My comparison of SN was from the same sources; over here, from the bottle.

IBU is (yet) another debatable point as so many rely on it while others point out that there is no true set standard.

 

But there's a reverse ignorance involved too, some people who have "been around the block" have respectable experience and shouldn't just be written off as old or out of touch.

 

Caught my eye while checking the MJPG's 1982 edition:

"This product, know simply as Jever Pilsener, has an astonishing 47 units of bitterness...less typical of a lager than of a stout...Sampling in other countries can disappoint, because Jever doesn't travel well unless it is handled with proper care."​

 

Here's how Jackson explained his use of what he called "Quality Ratings" (using 1 through 5 stars).

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"A beer rated ***** is a world classic either because it has outstanding complexity and distinction or because it is the definitive example of it's style, and no matter whether everyone is capable of appreciating it...​

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These ratings are not intended so much to praise or bury the beer as to guide the reader, and help indicate what might be expected of the product."​

 

I had several Jevers in Germany recently. On draft and from the bottle. Just don't think it has the remarkable bitterness as in the past. You can question my taste perception, but the data says otherwise. Several have said that German Pilsners are not as assertive as in the past, and I think that is true. The OCB article back that up with data.

 

Words to live (or drink, or discuss beer) by.

 

Most of those seem pretty valid. Hard to get too excited about anchor steam.

I was in germany last month and had fresh Jever. Didnt think it was anything better than the normal pilsners. Most of the others on that list I had a chance to try fresh were quite good though.

I wish we made lagers (or atleast popular/avaiable/affordable) ones like germany here....sigh.

 

It's not even a matter of "questioning" as it is a matter of understanding changing perceptions. I recognize it in my own history of beer drinking over time -- as I pointed out with the SNPA. Back when I started drinking that in 89 or 90 it was mind-blowing -- hoppy, bitter, citric -- now it seems tame compared to what's out there. Who's to say that all the big-hopped beers haven't changed so many perceptions, to ales and lagers alike?

 

Hard for you to get excited about Steam, it's been one of my favorites for almost 30 years -- but again, perception can come into play. At the time I discovered Anchor Steam there were few good beers to be found on shelves. Anchor was brewing something far and away different from the norm.

 

I will point our that Zum Uerige alt is still stunning in its bitterness. Just like I remember.

A fresh SNPA will be 37 IBUs, so a side by side with Jever would be a good test.

 

A lot of beers had bitterness reduced in the 70s and 80s.Holt's, Shipstone's and in particular Boddington's (once renowned for its intense bitterness) went this way.It reflected public taste and demand.

 

I'd like to comment on some of the beers in the OP's list, only the ones I drink on a regular basis.


Pilsner Urquell: While I think this is a good beer, especially when none of the carbonation is removed, I'm not sure I'd classify it as world-class. IMHO, Radeberger is better.

Jever Pilsner: I like Jever a lot, but it's likely too bitter for most. I wouldn't consider it world-class though.

Uerige Alt: World-class, although the Doppelsticke can be too sweet for some palates.

Hofbrau Maibock: An excellent specimen of the style, world-class.

Paulaner Salvator: I don't think this beer is good, too sweet, so definitely not world-class.

Schneider Aventinus: World-class.

An observation: Simply amazing MJ didn't rate any of the Ayinger products as world-class, possibly the best brewery in the world.

Duvel: I've encountered variation, likely due to storage conditions and durations. Not sure if I'd consider world-class, although it can be excellent.

Rodenbach Grand Cru: Best example of the style, world-class.

Chimay Blue: Blasphemy, I wouldn't consider it world-class.

Fuller's ESB: World-class ESB.

Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout: It's great, but how many good oatmeal stouts are there?

Guiness Extra Stout: When it's good it's great, I guess that qualifies it for world-class.

I always suspected payola played a role in MJ's ratings.

 

OK, you got me there steveh. 'Easily one of the worst cases of beer missed opportinuty' is probably a bit more like it. My sense of disappointment was probably exaggerated back in the 80s because I was very familiar with 'proper' Guinness (in its various guises) and the difference between it and the Labatt cold coffee version was stark.

 

Your final comment has the potential to attract an awful lot of unwanted attention. Not merely because it is wrong but because there isn't a shred of evidence to support such a claim. Michael Jackson was a gracious guy who was well above board.

 

Ill take the whole All of Belgium list, and 3 from England for a $1000 Alex.

Cheers!

 

See, I'll have to disagree there, to me this is more Märzen than Maibock. It just seems a little too heavy and thick (not to mention dark) than the usual Maibock.

Then again, I like the beer a lot and drink it when I can find it.

 

Hi Steve,

I've only had HB MB on tap and always find it surprisingly light. That said, I've only tried a handful of MBs in my life and over the last 10 years the only one I've had is HB's.

KP.