Michael Jackson's World-Class Beers

Hi Zimbo,

I think the universe of beers is too big and tastes vary too widely for a single person to be in such an influential position, MJ seemed to have a disproportionate influence...even on me. I don't think a panel should be put in that position either.

I think it's one thing to present opinions, but MJ was elevated to a status beyond just an opinion-provider during a time when beer's popularity was growing rapidly...he certainly contributed to that rapid growth, IMO for some specific names.

If you have reason to believe his influence could not be manipulated I can accept that, KP.

 

Both, sort of. It's changed noticably since I first drank it about 20 years ago. It's got much paler and sweeter. I think it's seriously dropped in quality.

 

Bottle-conditioned Guinness Extra Stout was a wonderful beer. If only Guinness weren't run by idiots, they might bring it back.

 

That's the recipe for my nostalgia Black and Tan Royale.

 

I think you could argue that MJ DID have a disporportionate amount of influence on the beer world. But it came down firstly due to the fact that when he first entered the world of beer writing he was virtually the only one and secondly that when he starting writing, no at the time even came close to having the possessing the same knowledge (or passion) as he did.

As for his ratings, his Introduction to the 1982 Pocket Guide to Beer gave some advice you'd probably agree with as to how authoritive he saw himself:
These ratings are not intended so much to praise or bury a beer as to guide the reader, and help inidicate what might be expected of the product.

 

A very good point.

That's why beers like Harveys Sussex Best Bitter and Timothy Taylor's Landlord are so important. (To me, at least.) They're beers that have kept their character. Using them as reference beers, I'm confident that many British Bitters have become blander over the last 30 years.

 

Sadly Ron, I have to agree with your final point there. Of the 'older' cask beers still found in Scotland only Caledonian 80 /- has retained most of its character.

 

I'll never get the love for Anchor Steam. I've tried it a number of times and it just doesn't seem like much of anything, no particular identity. I've also tried their Berkle's Brown and their Humming. The impression I got from both was that they were made by very experienced craftsmen who know what they're doing but that their goal was something plain. Like, somebody could make a very simple and plain piece of furniture but with very good and practiced technique so that the final product had tight tolerances, clean lines, even surfaces, and would last. You appreciate the craftsmanship and will get long use out of it, but you also want to buy nicer stuff for your home that doesn't fade into the background. It's quality work but just doesn't seem to aim very high. I don't find that I have any reason or desire to buy any of them again, even as just a regular utility beer to keep on hand, unless the yeasty element of the Humming happens to turn into a craving at some point in the future.

 

If Guinness were run by idiots they probably wouldnt be one of the most profitable and financially succesfully breweries in the world. Now if you were to say if they were run by people who truely cared about putting out the best product possible, I'd agree with you.

 

You need to understand that MJ was talking about the Zum Uerige alt. Not the Sticke, and if you know your beers you would not have mentioned the Dopelsticke as it was not around when MJ wrote that pocket guide. Doppelsticke was invented for the US market, IIRC.

I still like PU, but many say it has changed over the last 15 years under SAB ownership. Drink it fresh in Europe and you might change your mind. Radeburger is a more balanced German Pils, but not a top German Pils in my book.

Some say Chimay Blue is not what it used to be. Same for Rodenbach under the Palm ownership.

If you can back up the Payola with facts, I would be interested.

 

My Doppelsticke comment was an add-on to inform BAs as it is commonly available, regardless of your recall.

 

Too bad Thomas Hardy is no longer brewed, I'd love to try it.

 

the two that aren't even up for debate, IMO, are duvel and chimay blue. if you don't think those two are world class, you need your palate checked.

i know, i know, it's all subjective, etc etc. but those beers are endless oceans of complexity, all of it sublimely palatable (ie no "horse blanket" etc is contributing to the depths). those are two beers such that you have your first, and 10 years later you still get something new out of it when you have a bottle.

they fall behind pretty much every good pilsner in terms of "would you drink this every day? every week?" but for what they're trying to be, i don't see how you can fault them in almost any respect.

 

Well then you forgot Fullers Discovery and Rodenbach Redbach.

 

Look at Great Lakes Dortmunder rightfully making the list.

 

Lengthy, but get down to the Tim Webb section. He knows a little about the Belgian beers. That, or I should not read so much about beer. It has always been what it is now for hundreds and hundreds of years.

 

Much paler? I can remember when I first discovered Salvator many years ago (probably 20 as well) and I'd probably have to agree that it's not as dark as it may have been, but much paler? That makes it sound like it's now a Helles!

But I still enjoy it and often switch it up with Optimator when I get a taste for a good Doppel.

Have you been to the Keller lately Ron? I had a great experience there with a couple half liters of the Salvator (pre-fire).

 

Well it is just barely dark nowadays.

Not been to the Keller recently, I'm afraid.