Milkshake IPA Help

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Jake_Ramrod, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    Yes, I saw the previous threads over the last year. Just figured it was time to get another thread going since we have more collective experience now. Some quick thoughts:

    1318
    Citra and Simcoe late
    Lactose - half lb or a full lb?
    Oats
    Mango
    Coconut??? Issues with oils??

    Not really interested in flour. Should I be?

    Apples? Really? If so, in the mash?

    Probably a dumb question, but I have organic coconut/pineapple juice in the fridge? Can I throw that in? Never done it before, but that's alot of sugar. I'm thinking frozen or puree would be better. Thoughts?
     
  2. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,609) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Premium Trader

    I had one the other day, it was a brewery's take on a NEIPA and they took part of the batch and added lactose and blackberries. I have to say it was nice and unexpected. Not sure if it was based off of their Citra/Mosaic batch or the Galaxy batch
     
  3. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    Vanilla is important combined with the lactose. I used 3 vanilla beans cut, scraped, chopped in 1oz of vodka. I soaked for 1 week, and added to the fermenter on day 7.

    I did 5 green apples in the boil (15min) for the pectins which give it a great body and haze (other ways to achieve this as well I'm sure). There was no green apple flavor.

    This was my first attempt so I did not add fruit. When I do, I'll probably start with 5lbs of strawberrys frozen and then puréed and add to fermenter with vanilla ok day 7.

    Interested to hear other opinions and results!
     
    209Hill likes this.
  4. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    Thanks for commenting. Yeah, I forgot to mention the vanilla addition. I was planning on doing one bean split and vodka'd. You really think three is appropriate? That's alot of vanilla. Have you brewed this and it is currently fermenting? I'm interested in your results. I've got some time as I am going to do the Juicy Bits clone first, but make it a DIPA. As far as the apples, I would think that it would be plenty hazy from the 1318. Also, thanks for the info on when you are doing the additions.
     
  5. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    Oh, and I had planned on using Citra and Simcoe because that's what I have on hand, but I'm up for suggestions. I have a bunch of Chinook, but figured that might be a bit harsh for this style.
     
  6. 209Hill

    209Hill Initiate (30) Dec 22, 2016 Virginia

    Would you mind sharing some specifics on this? I'm putting together a NEIPA recipe and trying to figure out whether / how to incorporate apple pectin.

    Was this a 5 gallon batch? Did you puree? Did you do anything to prevent / limit material going from boil pot to fermenter? Did you consider adding them to the mash instead of the boil?

    Thanks in advance-
     
  7. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    @Jake_Ramrod i was going to do 2 vanilla beans. Went to the homebrew shop and they had 1 bean for $2.25 or 3 beans for $5.75. So I said "fuck it, let's go 3". The samples have tasted great. I'm bottling this weekend and I'll report back when it's ready.

    @209Hill 5 gallon batch. 5 Granny Smiths puréed in food processor. Not to the point of apple sauce though. It looked like you would feed it to a rabbit. I put it in a muslin bag with 15 mins left in the boil. I never considered the mash. When I pulled the bag out of the boil, the volume decreased significantly. So I think they were utilized pretty well.

    I will report back when it's ready!
     
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  8. Mothergoose03

    Mothergoose03 Poo-Bah (2,259) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    Premium

    With all of these fruity flavors to be expected, I think you need to call this a Smoothie IPA. Wow, sounds delicious! :slight_smile:
     
  9. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    I believe the originator of this was the guy from Omnipollo who indeed did call it a "Smoothie".
     
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  10. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    I think you're right... my homebrew is called "hop smoodie" in honor of how my son used to say "smoothie"
     
  11. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky


    What yeast are you using?
     
  12. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    Wyeast 1318 (London III)


    I just bottled today. Finished at 1.020 (pic below). The sample had great body/sweetness/color/vanilla. The sample was also more bitter than I expecting. I think that will subside once its carbed and cold.

    If it's still more bitter than I want, I'll move all hop additions to whirlpool 160F and dryhop.

    [​IMG]
     
    Buck89 likes this.
  13. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    [​IMG]

    My first attempt at a milkshake turned out nice imo. I did no fruit added but plan to start with 5 lbs puréed strawberrys this summer.

    I also met Jean from tired hands and spoke with him for a few minutes about milkshakes. He confirmed wheat flour and green apples in the boil. He also said no flaked oats, but used 30% Thomas fawcett oat malt in his grain bill.

    I'm planning to brew batch2 in a few days with some adjustments. I'm moving all hops to 170F whirlpool and dryhop so there's absolutely no bitterness. I have a slight bitterness in the pic above that conflicts with smooth lactose/vanilla. I'm also taking Jean's advice and doing no flaked oats, and around 30% golden naked oats (my LHBS doesn't carry the fawcett oats).

    I'm keeping the vanilla and lactose quantities the same... .5 lb lactose, 3 vanilla beans in a 5gallon batch.

    Looking forward to more ppl posting their results and adjustments here. This is one of my favorite type of beer to drink, partially because of how unconvential it is.
     
  14. Dustin_Sallitt

    Dustin_Sallitt Devotee (427) Dec 31, 2014 New Jersey

    @ECCS I think it would be worthwhile to get the fawcett. From my experience the malted oats have an intensely oaty vanilla flavor, whereas the golden naked oats have more of a caramel and honey flavor
     
    ECCS likes this.
  15. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    Thanks for the tip. I think I might order some fawcett oats now!
     
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  16. Jeremy9991

    Jeremy9991 Initiate (0) Sep 28, 2016 Wisconsin

    Looks like you guys had a great first attempt at it! I'm planning to attempt one this weekend and put together the below recipe. Out of curiosity, what temp did you both mash at?

    Let me know if you've learned anything else lately and here is how I'm going at it. Open to feedback and will probably be brewing it Saturday or Sunday. Cheers!

    Original Gravity: 1.074
    Final Gravity: 1.021
    ADF: 71%
    ABV: 6.9% (traditional), 7.3% (more accurate)
    Tinseth IBUs: 0 (Modified Tinseth IBUs: 35)

    ------Misc Info-----

    Fermentables: 17.75 Pounds
    Mash Efficiency: 75%
    Total Water Needed: 11.08 Gallons
    Pre-Boil: 8.04 Gallons @ 1.063
    Boil-Off Rate: 1.24 Gallons/Hr
    Post-Boil Volume: 6.8 Gallons

    ----------Grain Bill----------
    10 - 2-Row Brewer's Malt, Briess
    1 - Flaked Oats
    1 - White Wheat Malt (US)
    0.5 - Carapils
    0.5 - Acid Malt
    0.5 - Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
    1 - Lactose
    1 - Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
    2- Malted oats

    Strike Water: 107 Ca ,12 Mg, 10 Na, 198 Cl, 57 SO4 , 0 HCO3
    Mash pH: 5.28

    ---Other Timed Boil Additions---
    Ingredient / Amount / Minutes
    Lactose 1lb 15
    Dextrose 0.5lb 15
    Whirlfloc 1 15
    Apple Puree 5LB 15

    ----------Flameout/Whirlpool/Hopstand Hops----------
    Hop Type Ounces Avg Temp Minutes
    Ariana p 2 170 30
    Azzaca p 2 170 30
    Belma p 2 170 30

    ---------------Dry Hops & Fermentation Additions---------------
    Hop Type Ounces Days Temp
    Equinox (HBC 366) p 2 3 66
    Cascade p 2 3 66
    Ariana p 2 3 66
    Mango Puree 8-10LBS To taste 2nd Ferm
    Vanilla Beans 3 pcs To taste 2nd Ferm


     
  17. Jeremy9991

    Jeremy9991 Initiate (0) Sep 28, 2016 Wisconsin

  18. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    @Jeremy9991
    Looks like a good recipe to me - here's a few of my initial thoughts (I'm no expert, so take them with a grain of salt)

    I mash at 150-156. I do BIAB in my kettle, so I'm not able to control temps as well as others. I keep my built in thermometer around 156F, and my quick read thermometer in top hovers around 150F.

    Hops - I don't know much about the hops you have on terms of their flavor profiles. I of all the varialble in my recipe, I think hops are one I'm not changing for awhile (I'm approx 3:1 citra:mosaic)

    Good luck! Post your results
     
  19. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Meyvn (1,051) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Just wanted to offer some hopefully helpful advice and say that 30% golden naked oats is A LOT! Consider them as a crystal malt and not as oat malt or flaked oats.

    I'd start at 5%. Recommended limits go up to 15% but even that seems awfully high to me.
     
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  20. Jake_Ramrod

    Jake_Ramrod Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    Good to know.
     
  21. anteater

    anteater Champion (807) Sep 10, 2012 Oregon
    Trader

    The results of my Mango Milkshake IPA...

    Its fantastic, this is definitely one my my favorite IPA's I've brewed. Appearance is basically the same as all my other NEIPAs. Aroma is definitely strong mango, more in a hoppy than fruit way though, and pineapple. Taste is a lot of mango, again in more of a hoppy way, some dank, and creamy sweetness. The mouthfeel is where its at, this is just hands down the fullest and juiciest IPA I've made. Overall its not as milkshakey as I expected. It pretty much tastes like a Citra/Mosaic NEIPA with a creamier mouthfeel and an emphasis on the mango, but man I love it. Cost wise I might just ditch the fruit next time since it didn't add as much as expected, but I will experiment more with lactose/vanilla. I might also try pureeing apples for the boil next time as well.

    [​IMG]

    The recipe:

    O.G 1.067

    78% 2 row
    10% Flaked oats
    7% Lactose (flameout)
    5% Wheat
    3 diced apples (in the mash)

    Mashed 152

    0.75 oz Columbus (60 min)
    2 oz Citra (whirlpool)
    2 oz Mosaic (whirlpool)
    2 oz Citra dry hop (primary)
    2 oz Mosaic dry hop (primary)
    2 oz Citra dry hop (2 days)
    2 oz Mosaic dry hop 2 days)

    1 vanilla bean (7 days)
    5 lb frozen mango (7 days)
     
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  22. Buck89

    Buck89 Poo-Bah (2,327) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee
    Premium Trader

    What yeast did you use?
     
  23. anteater

    anteater Champion (807) Sep 10, 2012 Oregon
    Trader

    Very important detail I left out... Imperial Barbarian, which is Conan.
     
    Buck89 likes this.
  24. Buck89

    Buck89 Poo-Bah (2,327) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee
    Premium Trader

    I'm planning on brewing one of these in a few weeks - your posts are really helpful. I'll probably go with something very close to your grain bill and use 1318 yeast. I have a pound of Mandarina Bavaria hops taking us space so I may go with a single hop version looking for a tangerine flavor. I'm thinking one vanilla bean (I have one soaking in rum already). Debating adding any fruit/juice at kegging. Any advice is appreciated!
     
    VABA likes this.
  25. anteater

    anteater Champion (807) Sep 10, 2012 Oregon
    Trader

    I wouldn't change a whole lot if I was going to brew it again. I think 1318 might work better than Conan, and I'd consider using 1.5 vanilla beans instead of one.
     
    Buck89 likes this.
  26. RobNeuhaus

    RobNeuhaus Initiate (16) Jul 8, 2014 New York

    I just brewed a mango mosaic micro milkshape IPA. This is mostly inspired by Gun HIll's Mosaic Soft Serve (3% ABV, oats, lactose, delicious), and Mad Fermentionist's Mango Vanilla Hopsicle. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

    Title: MMMM... Mango Mosaic Milkshake Micro IPA
    Author: rrenaud
    Brew Method: All Grain
    Style Name: American IPA
    Boil Time: 30 min
    Batch Size: 4.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
    Boil Size: 5.5 gallons
    Boil Gravity: 1.036
    Efficiency: 65% (brew house)
    STATS:
    Original Gravity: 1.044
    Final Gravity: 1.015
    ABV (standard): 3.79%
    IBU (tinseth): 41.76
    SRM (morey): 4.8
    5 lb - American - Vienna (43.5%)
    3 lb - Mango (26.1%)
    1 lb - Flaked Oats (8.7%)
    1 lb - Pineapple (8.7%)
    0.5 lb - Lactose (Milk Sugar) (4.3%)
    1 lb - Flaked Wheat (8.7%)

    0.25 oz - Warrior, Type: Pellet, AA: 16, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 14.71
    2.6 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 190 °F, IBU: 27.05
    5.4 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days

    MASH GUIDELINES: 160 F, Time: 30 min, no sparge
    OTHER INGREDIENTS:
    1 each - madagascar grade A vanilla bean, Time: 7 days, Type: Spice, Use: Secondary

    Wyeast - London Ale III 1318 @ 65F
    Starter: Yes

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/571890/mmmm-mango-mosaic-milkshake-micro-ipa
     
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  27. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (168) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    Thanks for posting! One comment and one question...
    I know it’s not much, but the only thing that sticks out in the recipe is the warrior for bittering. With the desired fruit/sweet/vanilla flavors, I personally want 0 IBU in a beer like this. Interested to hear your thoughts when you try it.

    How did you treat the fruit? It’s listed in the mash, but I assume you didn’t mash with it. Did you use frozen fruit? Purée? Secondary? How long? Cheers
     
  28. chavinparty

    chavinparty Initiate (120) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    Maybe I didn’t scan this thread well but how do you purée frozen fruit or do you purée fresh and then freeze. This is the only part of the process I don’t understand. Do you thaw the purée before adding?
     
  29. RobNeuhaus

    RobNeuhaus Initiate (16) Jul 8, 2014 New York

    It's a pretty small bittering addition. Basically I want a creamy, flavorful IPA where the lactose/vanilla sweetness fills in for the lack of malt. Another milkshape IPA I really enjoyed is Decadent Ales Tropical Smoothie, which is 60 IBU at 7% ABV. To me it was sweet, but not overly so. I expect this beer to have a similar IBU:OG ratio, and hopefully a similar sweetness without the cloyingness.
     
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  30. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    when I do my milkshakes I use frozen fruit. I let the fruit sit out on the counter while I get my secondary all cleaned and sanitized and get my closed transfer set up. Then I put the frozen fruit in my ninja blender and blend the shit out of it. It makes it easier for the fruit to cover more surface after if its blended good and also drops to the bottom much quicker when cold crashing. I don't do any special treatment to the frozen fruit and have not had any issues yet. On a side note fermentation usually will kick off again for a couple days once fruit is added so make sure you have adequate room in your secondary. I found that if you don't blend the fruit really good it can make things a pain. I put my fruit in frozen/whole. Well the fruit seemed to swell up quite a bit and almost compacted to a gelatin like texture. Ill share a picture in a few.
     
  31. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    [​IMG]
    I had a good 6 to 8 inches of headspace before the fruit swelled up. I had to bungee the top on to keep the fruit from pushing it off. It was hard for the co2 to escape once the fruit molded to the shape of the fermenter and almost gelatinized.
     
  32. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    When blended the fruit didn' expand nearly as much. That's strawberries, peaches, and 4oz of dry hops. Looks gross as hell, but taste amazing.
     
  33. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    [​IMG]
    Heres the finished product of my Strawberry Mango one. The strawberry peach one is cold crashing and getting kegged tonight.
     
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  34. RobNeuhaus

    RobNeuhaus Initiate (16) Jul 8, 2014 New York

    Couple Qs: @TooHopTooHandle

    Do you have a recipe?

    What is the fruiting rate on that first batch that almost swelled out of the fermenter? Have you considered bagging the fruit and weighing in down? I guess the blending process works for you, so that's cool.
     
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  35. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    the fruiting rate on the first batch was way to much and it ended up separating in the keg after 4 days, it was 7lbs of strawberries and 4lbs of mangos. The second batch I dropped the fruit rate down to 4lbs of strawberries and 2 lbs of peaches. Once its finished ill report back on that. No I didn't want to bag the fruit so that way more surface area of the fruit is touching the beer for better extraction (I could just be overthinking it on that part lol)
    My recipe is as follows
    60 min boil-60min mash @ 152. Mash ph 5.38
    Using distilled water
    London Ale III 1318 (1.6L starter 24 hours before and pitch right off stir plate w/ no decant)
    11lbs-2row
    2lbs- flaked oats
    2lbs- flaked wheat
    2lbs- white wheat
    1lb- Lactose (last 5 min of boil)
    .5lbs- honey malt
    .5lbs- crystal 10
    6oz of citra, 6oz of denali, 6oz of Eldorado, 6oz of galaxy.
    4ozs of each hop for a 30 minute hop stand at 180 degrees and let the temp free fall
    2.02:1 chloride(17 grams) to sulfate(7grams) ratio also 3ml of lactic acid (all added to mash)
    24 hours in to fermentation add 1oz of each hop.
    3 vanilla beans spit, scraped, chopped, and soaked in vodka for a week.
    4lbs strawberries and 2lbs peaches. (both frozen not fresh with no special treatment)
    Once FG is reached and stays the same for 2 days I put the fruit (blended), vanilla bean tincture(dump all in), and 1oz of each hop in secondary (rec putting the vanilla bean tincture in first, then hops, then fruit, it seems to hold the hops down a little longer and keeps them from getting pushed to the surface) and rack beer on top through closed transfer. Let secondary sit for 5-7 days then cold crash for 48 hours. Then rack to keg through closed transfer. I carb mine at around 2.4vols of Co2.
    I didn't post water amounts because everyone's system is different, so your chloride to sulfate grams might be a little different. You want to shoot for around 200ppm:100ppm
    Any questions or if I missed anything feel free to ask.
     
  36. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    [​IMG]
    Just kegged my Strawberry peach milkshake lastnight. Here is a little sample I pulled.
     
  37. kldobbins

    kldobbins Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2010 Maryland

    @TooHopTooHandle . Would you make any adjustments to the fruit ratios/amounts in that Strawberry/peach version? or keep it the same now that you got to taste it? Did you get enough flavor from each?
     
  38. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    I would not make any adjustments as I thought this came out incredible and so did the people I shared it with, but I did get mixed reviews on what fruit stood out more. It was about 50/50 on who tasted what fruit more. I felt the flavor from each was perfect. I get more strawberry forward with an underlying peach flavor, which is what I was going for. I might try switching the fruit ratios around next time to see what that brings to the table.
     
  39. RobNeuhaus

    RobNeuhaus Initiate (16) Jul 8, 2014 New York

    I've only tasted my mango mosaic milkshake micro IPA cold and uncarbed, so in that state it's really nice. Not super thin, as you might expect for a 3.5% beer. The flavor is nice, not obvious if mostly its coming from the hops or the fruit.
     
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  40. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (84) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    Yeah with the hops I use they definitely throw a tropical/citrus flavor, but I know the flavors they put off because I used my base neipa recipe which I've brewed several times to make my milkshake recipe, but with a few tweaks in the grain bill and adding fruit and lactose.