The latest version of this water calculator is now available at homebrewingphysics. The equations used in this version to calculate mash pH are based on A.J. DeLange's formalism regarding charge conservation in the mash. Details are described in the paper "A Homebrewing Perspective on Mash pH III: Distilled-Water pH and Buffering Capacity of the Grist". Any feedback is welcome. Cheers!
Thank you - I have recently looked at your previous version in some detail, and compared it with some of the other calculators. This is definitely the best water calculator that I have come across. However, and this is not by any means meant as a criticism of your excellent calculator itself, it is only as good as its assumptions. Regarding the assumptions, I think that too many people place far too much importance on the initial water profile and how it affects the final "target" water profile of the beer, and almost no importance at all on the type and amount of grains and hops that almost certainly contribute a significantly far greater contribution to the final ion composition than does the initial water profile. Unfortunately, I have only seen two studies that indicate the amount of ions that actually come from the grain/hops, although none that show how much the hops alone contribute. One study only used grain and no hops, and although significant, it wasn't as significant as the study which used both grains and hops. Thus it is possible that the hops make a very significant contribution on their own, unless the difference was also a result of the specialty grains used. In any case, the combined contributions are huge. Thus one can follow a recipe and keep the initial water profile constant, but, by altering the amount and type of grains and hops used, a significantly different final beer profile can result.
Very good points! What you are thinking about is, I guess, the next frontier in beer water chemistry. Cheers!
I think analyses that determine the contributions from different grains and hops is indeed the next frontier. I'm absolutely dumfounded why this hasn't already been done, and why there is such intense criticism or silence for even mentioning this. I guess people like to stick to the simple theories they have become used to, or have little interest in the dynamics of how the calculators work, assuming that the calculators are just black boxes that have already addressed everything there is to know. (In terms of calculating the mash acidity, there is no real problem - it's only when addressing the final salts in the beer profile where the difficulties begin). It would be a fantastic graduate paper for any college brewing students. I wish I was younger and attending a brewing course. I would definitely conduct such a study. I actually thought of doing this anyway, but the cost is prohibitive. To start, I would conduct a number of experiments using RO water. One would just use ordinary 2-row malt and no hops. Then I would have the resultant beer water profile analyzed. This would indicate how much the grain alone contributes to the final profile. Then I would conduct the same test, but add a normal amount of standard hops, and again measure the resultant beer water profile. The difference would be a general indication of how much the hops actually contribute by themselves (of course there would be other, perhaps mostly negligible differences such as hop utilization, but it would at least provide a ball park value). Then I would try the same experiment, using the same grain and hops, but also add, say a pound of specialty malts. And again measure the resultant beer profile. These three tests alone would already provide a wealth of information, and one can keep trying different grains and hops afterwards. It always surprises me when homebrewers endlessly discuss whether to add a touch more of this or that salt to the water, when those differences make little difference and are almost insignificant compared to the incredible contribution that grain and hops alone make to the final profile (as already established with the two experiments that I have seen). The water calculators could then be easily improved to add the contributions from various typical grains and hops. Once again, though, you've done an incredible service to water calculators as they stand today, and yours is definitely the very best and most accurate that I've seen, accounting for some fundamental problems that the other widely used calculators, for whatever reason, continue to encompass. Thank you!
Ballast Point did a study on the ion contribution of all sorts of base malts. There’s a great MBAA podcast on it. They make some pretty decent generalizations but their results do line up with some other info I’ve seen. I’d be interested to see what hops bring to the table as well. Issue is not only would the ion content vary by base malt but also by Maltster. Every maltster’s water is different and the water/soil is different in every region. It would be an absolutely endless rabbit hole that you’d really never find the bottom of as it would constantly change. On an interesting aside I’ve been using Rahr 2 row that’s malted in Alberta and some that’s malted in MN. The pH alone is generally .2 higher on the Alberta 2-row as compared to the stuff malted in MN. Is that because of the Maltster’s water? Where the grain was grown? Variety? I believe generic 2 row can be a blend of say three different Barley varieties.
Do you happen to have a link to that study, @wasatchback? I would be very interested. I agree that there wil likely be numerous variations depending on the type of malt and hops, but I think having a few generalizations of the contributions by the more popular grains and hops will be extemely helpful, much more than the initial water content. What would be most helpful of all, and which I've seen absolutely no study of whatsoever, is the contribution that hops make.
For those brewers who want to learn more about brewing water I would suggest they read Gordon Strong’s article entitled “Brewing with Reverse Osmosis Water” in the latest (March-April 2020) issue of BYO. A few topics I think are worth highlighting: It is indeed more than just the water “I ask the simple question: Who says all of those minerals must come from water? Did malt suddenly become mineral free when I wasn’t looking? The mineral content of beer does not exclusively come from water…” Water Profiles “Second are those profiles actually what the brewers used? Did the brewers perform any pre-treatment? Is it the profile that is in the mash tun? It is not necessarily just the mash or sparge water “Remember that you can adjust the flavor ions after the beer is finished, as well as the finished pH. Lots of good information/thoughts beyond what I highlighted above. Cheers!
