My $0.02 On Adding a Beer on This Site

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by woodychandler, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. woodychandler

    woodychandler Poo-Bah (8,725) Apr 9, 2004 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I recently read an entry in which someone was crowing that it was nice, right, sweet & fitting (dulce et decorum est) to be the first reviewer of a beer that he had added.

    That's all well & good … as long as you are NOT adding a duplicate listing! Whoops.

    For your edification - The Bro. Woody Method of Adding a Beer on BeerAdvovate: 1) Procure said beer; 2) Take & resize a picture for submission so that others may recognize this beer on sight; 3) Check the brewery's website for Notes/Commercial Description as provided; 3) Build the name fully and correctly, i.e. "Snow Cap Hoppy Wheat (Ale)" vice "Snow Cap", relying on the adage that "If it appears on the label, then it part of the full name"; 4) Find out the ABV & add it, even though it is "Optional". There are plenty of current resources to get this information.; 5) Submit your carefully researched & vetted entry.; 6) Once submitted, submit the picture for approval; 7) Next, submit the Notes for inclusion; 8) Finally, at least rate, but hopefully, review your beer; 8) Bask in the reflected glory as others discover the beer that you have added.

    That's my mantra. It's nothing nouveau.
     
  2. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (2,374) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I've added a few beers to the site and never saw the prompt for adding the commercial description. Where does that pop up in the process?
     
  3. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (1,710) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I believe BA has site editors in place to address the issues you present.
     
  4. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    After adding the beer, you will need to Submit an Update to have the Notes/Commercial Description added.
     
  5. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    Well it is lot less work for the volunteer Site Editors if beers are added with the correct information and duplicates are not added :slight_smile:
     
  6. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (1,710) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Understandable. I wouldn't mind doing it, though. I've been logging on this site daily for numerous years.
     
  7. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    Reach out to @Todd via BM (probably suggest after this weekend's Extreme Beer Fest) to let him know you would be interested, then when they are adding more Site Editors you will be in the pool of potential candidates.
     
    cryptichead, drtth and TheIPAHunter like this.
  8. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,223) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Premium Trader

    Avoiding duplication is key. Before adding a beer, I bring up the place page for the brewery, click on all so it includes discontinued beers. Then I check the list for the brew, checking several possible name variations. If I still can't spot it, I do a text search on the page for the most unique words in the name. Only then do I conclude that I can proceed with adding it.
     
  9. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Meyvn (1,196) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Trader

    I have to say that this is actually a pet peeve of mine. Every beer will have a style description on the label, but that does not mean that it's part of the name, it's a totally separate entity. After all, you wouldn't enter "Kentucky Breakfast Stout" as "Highly Acclaimed KBS A Flavored Stout" just because it appears on the label like that, would you?
     
  10. dvmin98

    dvmin98 Site Editor (2,783) Nov 1, 2010 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    From a site editor's point of view, I definitely agree, and if you add the entire name on the can:

    1. a lot of time its redundant. ie I wouldn't add the words IPA to something like Citraquent'ial
    2. sometimes its necessary because the words in the name are descriptive or possessive such as 'Fred's New England IPA'
    3. With the crazy names coming out these days, you can't put the entire name in sometimes due to length....see Evil Twin
    4. If there are variants, we try and bunch them together (if doesn't take away from the name) so that they are 'cleaned up' and will line up on the brewery page. ie add 'bourbon barrel-aged' after the name. See Alesmith and all of the Speedway Stout variants.
    5. Avoid putting the brewery's name in the beer's name because that is also redundant.
    6. Try and name the beer accurately and to make it easier for people to search and find them
     
  11. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,223) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Premium Trader

    There is rarely a reason for the brewery name to be in the beer name. Exceptions might be where they're making a play off the brewery name or if the brewery shows the brewery name as part of the beer name but don't on their other beers. Don't trust anyone other than the brewery on the name - independent taprooms, liquor stores, and postings by individuals often get names wrong. You also can't just go off the label because there is often additional wording on the label that the brewery does not intend to be part of the name. If you can't find out what the brewery intended for the name, take your best stab at it and it can be changed later.
     
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  12. Luscious_Malfoy

    Luscious_Malfoy Meyvn (1,317) Oct 5, 2016 Illinois
    Premium Trader

    regarding collabs: is it really necessary to put both (or all) breweries collaborating in the beer name? my thought is in order to keep the name short, that the beer should be listed under the brewery in which it is being released at (although i know sometimes both or all breweries will release the beer) and then put in the notes/description that it is a collab.
     
  13. Ozzylizard

    Ozzylizard Poo-Bah (3,366) Oct 5, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I absolutely agree! When I'm trying to add a new beer to a brewery's list, adding the brewery's name to the beer name just clutters the nomenclature with an unnecessary redundancy. Be accurate, but apply the KISS principle.
     
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  14. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    That is the standard that was established, so that is what the Site Editors follow (as asked of us) - there are a few cases where there are more breweries involved in the collab than the name field can handle and we usually then put the info in the Notes section.
     
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  15. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,705) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Trader

    This. So many times this. Folks, we already clicked on the brewery name, we know what brewery we're looking at, we don't need to see the breweries name 150 times while trying to find the beer we have.

    As far as collabs, they should probably be listed under the brewery where the actual brewing was done, as that brewery is legally responsible for the beer (paying the taxes, getting label approval, etc.).
     
  16. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    That is what is supposed to be done - if you see ones listed under the incorrect brewery, please submit the update.
     
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  17. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (6,352) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    Premium Trader

    It's easier than that. When you go to add a beer, a list pops up, both current and retired beers. How hard is it to scroll through the list to make sure that the beer you want to add is unique??
     
  18. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,223) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Premium Trader

    That gets you the whole list but you can't assume that the person who added it before you got the name right. Many times I've found that the name was in there but incorrect. Then I just submit a name correction - based on what the brewer calls it.
     
    #18 bbtkd, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  19. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (6,352) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    Premium Trader

    You and I, and I reckon a few others here would probably notice that right off the bat. :wink:
    And submit a change request.
     
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  20. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    Very true... many of the updates come from "the regulars."
     
  21. superspak

    superspak Site Editor (26,579) May 5, 2010 Michigan
    Premium Trader

    I don't mind merging and editing duplicate beers, but some people really need to learn how to use the search bar. It works really well these days. In regards to collabs and certain series titles, a lot of the time people will search alphabetically down a long list for the "base" name and not see it and add it as duplicate. About 95% of the stuff I find is because of this, and the search function would have caught it. Try it out.
     
  22. JamFuel

    JamFuel Poo-Bah (3,213) Mar 26, 2009 Sweden
    Premium

    I always start with Search, and if I get no hits, but I feel like the beer SHOULD be there, I’ll scroll through the listed beers for the brewery.

    Also, brewery names should only be part of the name for collabs, in my opinion.
     
    StoutElk_92 and Luscious_Malfoy like this.
  23. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,223) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Premium Trader

    Hopefully at some point they can rework the method for changing a picture. Now, you have to submit a "suggestion" stating that you have a newer picture to upload, then an admin has to remove the existing one, then you need to notice and upload the new one. Twice when I've done this it reverted to the old outdated one rather than the new one. Not sure if the admin had an issue with my picture, put the old one back accidentally, or if the original poster noticed the picture was gone and uploaded the old one again.

    Yes, in both cases my picture met all the rules - I've uploaded a lot of pictures. I suggest that when they redo this that the proposed picture is uploaded when the suggestion is made - so the admin compares the pictures and switches it if appropriate. I'd also appreciate a note back if it isn't used - would like to know why for future reference.
     
    #23 bbtkd, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  24. dvmin98

    dvmin98 Site Editor (2,783) Nov 1, 2010 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    Regarding pictures

    1. The old picture, even when deleted, has to basically get out of the 'system' before a new one is uploaded. Usually takes about an hour or so to do. If you upload a new one right away, it reverts to the old one

    2. I've denied a lot of pictures for various reasons including bad quality, lighting, multiple beers in the pic, etc. Basically we just want a clear picture that showcases the beer that is being submitted and nothing else.

    3. A lot of times there are multiple pictures for the same beer in queue, so we will approve the first one, then the second one won't get submitted.

    4. Multiple times the picture submitted is the wrong beer

    5. If you have questions about pictures, I suggest you ask @superspak He's the frickin' picture guru and probably has submitted several thousand
     
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  25. superspak

    superspak Site Editor (26,579) May 5, 2010 Michigan
    Premium Trader

    Yea they are now, the only reason why some breweries still have the brewery name with the beer name is because that was the old naming convention a while back. There are still some places that need to get that cleaned up. I've been working on it.

    Well yea, over 12000 :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    @bbtkd
    With regards to the old picture thing: I have uploaded ones right off the bat after deletion and it does show the old pic for a while, but after about 24 hours it will stop showing the old one. You usually have to do a full cache wipe for your browser if it doesn't. When we delete the pic it is officially gone.
     
    seakayak likes this.
  26. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,223) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Premium Trader

    You nailed it. I had one I recently uploaded after a mod/admin deleted the old one, then the old one showed again. I just reloaded the page and mine now shows up.
     
    Bitterbill likes this.
  27. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Meyvn (1,196) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Trader

    I usually include a link to an already resized picture when I submit a picture correction, yet that has never gotten properly implemented so far except once, which I find odd. I usually have to wait until the picture gets taken down and then upload the new one, as @bbtkd has described. I'm just wondering why submitting a link to a resized picture doesn't work most of the time...

    I also get the feeling that there is an unwillingness to replace outdated pictures with current ones, or is that just my impression? Label art can change quite a lot over time, wouldn't it be in the best interest of the site to have current pictures available? I've submitted a few corrections for outdated art already and most of those pictures never got taken down, so I finally gave up on it...

    @dbrauneis @dvmin98 @superspak
     
    bbtkd likes this.
  28. superspak

    superspak Site Editor (26,579) May 5, 2010 Michigan
    Premium Trader

    Like I said above, the picture will be updated if we delete it, but you will have to wait a day and/or completely clear your browser cache/cookies. There are still some beers showing the old pic on my desktop, but will show the new pic on my phone. It is weird as hell. I do agree most people don't care about updating old pics, but I have been doing it myself and not having any problems. I encourage you to keep requesting updates as necessary.
     
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  29. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    In general, if the label art has changed and a request is submitted then I remove the old picture so a new one can be added. I do not believe there is an unwillingness to remove outdated pictures.

    As for downloading pictures from random links provided in the update, I would prefer not to with my personal computer as a volunteer (who knows what lurks in someone's dropbox or the like)... So once the picture is removed you can upload the picture (and get the BeerKarma associated with it).
     
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  30. mudbug

    mudbug Zealot (584) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon

    Everything except rate. Nothing binds my shorts in a bunch more than researching a new beer and the best info I get is a stupid, worthless, lazy, undignified, insulting, pointless, hollow, meaningless number. If you are going to go through the trouble adding a beer take a few seconds and tell us at least SOMETHING about it. End rant
     
  31. superspak

    superspak Site Editor (26,579) May 5, 2010 Michigan
    Premium Trader

    I feel you, but fact is that most people are too lazy now to do any sort of review ever since they made ratings a thing. A lot of well known top raters used to write stuff, but not so much anymore. I take pride in being one of the few left that reviews every single thing that I try in complete detail.
     
  32. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    Sometimes I do that when I add the beer if I'm out and about and then I come back at a later time and type up a full review from my notes - there can be a decent delay between those events.
     
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  33. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    I review everything I have at home but sometimes when I'm out I just don't have the space to take good notes and hate typing up a full review on the phone (or I'm actually socializing and don't have time for a full review). I still review a large percentage of the beers I drink.
     
    macrosmatic likes this.
  34. mudbug

    mudbug Zealot (584) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon

    Dammit man! don't you take this seriously? Some poor idiot like me could befall the horrors of purchase regret in the time between you adding a beer nonchalantly and fulfilling your Todd given responsibility to BEER (GEEKS) ADVOCATE. Think of the poor ignorants man, have a heart, review.
     
    beertunes likes this.
  35. woodychandler

    woodychandler Poo-Bah (8,725) Apr 9, 2004 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    DON'T tempt me!
     
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  36. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,863) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Trader

    One more thing to assist us Site Editors, please look for consistency in how beers are named when there are a lot in a series (depending on how the breweries' name them)...

    Examples:
    Tree House - Curiosity Fifty (not Curiosity 50 or Curiosity #50)
    Westbrook - Rinse / Repeat - Galaxy (not Rinse/Repeat (Galaxy) or Rinse / Repeat: Galaxy)
     
    TheDoctor, zid, bbtkd and 4 others like this.
  37. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Meyvn (1,196) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Trader

    I was wondering how this is supposed to be handled when the beer name consist ONLY of the style name. Like Weihenstephaner Pils or Black Sheep Milk Stout, for example. These seem to have the brewery name included fairly consistently from what I can tell and I guess it kinda makes sense, but I still wanted to double-check.

    Also, this is a bit off-topic, but I don't really want to open a new thread for it, so I was wondering if all of the Stone Berlin beers that are not unique to Stone BERLIN, e.g. IPA, Ripper, Go-To, etc. shouldn't really be merged with their Stone Brewing counterparts. After all these are exactly the same beers, just brewed in two different locations.
     
  38. champ103

    champ103 Poo-Bah (4,371) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
    Premium

    Just as a note, it use to be pretty standard to add the breweries name, then the name of the beer. There are lots of beers added in the early 2000's that are like that. I think it was just the way things were at one point, so people kept the format for some. Obviously now, it is different and hard standardize everything across the board.
     
  39. zid

    zid Savant (956) Feb 15, 2010 New York

    What's the rational behind that?
     
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  40. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Meyvn (1,196) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Trader

    It would certainly be nice if notes and a picture could both be added right when adding a beer, instead of having to do that separately afterwards. Would simplify things quite a bit...