My Efficiency Sucks

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015.

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  1. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    Ok, a couple different methods, but the same problem.

    Lately, I've been doing 1 gallon BIAB batches on my stovetop. I crush the grains, get my water up to temp, and mash in a 2 gallon stockpot. I put the pot in the oven on warm to hold the temp for the hour and after an hour, the temp is still perfect. But my efficiency seems to be about 50%. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

    For example, tonight I did 1lb Munich and 1lb wheat (both Weyermann). My pre boil gravity at 1.25 gallons was 1.029. OG came out to 1.040 with a little less than a gallon.

    Also, same problem with full scale mashing in a 32qt rectangular cooler. I get about 60% conversion.

    Both sound way too low to me when I hear everyone else talking about 80% conversion.

    Suggestions?
     
    #1 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    First thought... how is your crush?
     
    #2 VikeMan, May 23, 2015
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  3. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    The standard setting on the Barley Crusher mill....(which had a REALLY tough time with my latest grain bill)
     
    #3 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    With that setting, do you end up with many kernels that are still whole?
     
    #4 VikeMan, May 23, 2015
  5. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    Not that I've noticed...it actually looks like a fairly decent crush. But that HAS been the other consistent thing every time. It's the homebrew shops mill.
     
    #5 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  6. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Your actually closer to 70-72% efficiency. Which is pretty decent and what I usually end up with unless I go with a finer grind.
     
    #6 psnydez86, May 23, 2015
  7. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    [​IMG]
    Based off my boil rate and equipment setup 1.038 would have been your OG with 70% efficiency. Did you sparge at all?

    Brewing a 1 gallon batch all grain just sounds incredibly painful.... To me.
     
    #7 psnydez86, May 23, 2015
  8. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    70-72%? I use Brew Pal and set the default to 65% and am coming short of my target gravities.

    Maybe I'm doing my math wrong...here's how I come up with it.

    Munich: 33ppg
    Wheat: 37ppg
    Total at 100%: 70ppg

    My OG at less than one gallon: 1.040. Even if it was a full gallon, that would be 57%. Am I wrong there?
     
    #8 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  9. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    ...or maybe Brew Pal sucks?
     
    #9 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    For a pound each of those malts at those potential PPGs...
    1.040 in 0.9 gallons* would be 51.4% Mash Efficiency
    1.040 in 1.0 gallons* would be 57.1% Mash Efficiency

    *wort volume only, not including hop volume
     
    #10 VikeMan, May 23, 2015
  11. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    ...and I was probably at .9 gallons...MAYBE slightly less.

    Do I need to squish the grain bag to get everything out? Would that help? Probably not 30% though, right...?
     
    #11 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Squeezing the bag would help mash efficiency. But you're not going to get 30% more mash efficiency out of it.

    Another thought... what temperature are you mashing at (i.e. is it in a proper range for mashing), and how certain are you of the temp (i.e. how accurate is your thermometer)?
     
    #12 VikeMan, May 23, 2015
  13. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    This last one I mashed at 154. And my temp is completely accurate, I use a thermapen for my thermometer (it's got a thermocouple).
     
    #13 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    All I can suggest at this point is... describe your whole process, including volumes, mash thickness, water profiles, temps, times, equipment, Bag size/type, temp of wort when reading gravity, gravity reading method, how/when you are determining your post-boil volume. Basically, your whole brew day, step by step, up through the gravity reading.
     
    #14 VikeMan, May 23, 2015
  15. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    @Fattymcphatty vikemans numbers are correct and mine were wrong. After switching my profile to BIAB I see what your saying. 1.040 is like 50% efficient.

    I would assume that you need to go with a finer grind and I reccomend rinsing your grain bag with some 170f water after your mash. (If you dont)
     
    #15 psnydez86, May 23, 2015
  16. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    Ok here goes:

    With my BIAB, I use a super fine nylon bag that I tie off at the top and hang over the edge of my pot.

    This last batch (grains mentioned above) was 2lb of grain that I mashed in 1.5 gallons of water. After getting my strike water to 159, I dropped in the bag, stirred it in a bit, checked my temp (154, perfectly), put the lid on, and hid the pot in the oven.

    After a 60 minute mash, I let the bag drip all the water I have the patience for to get out. I heated 4 cups of water to 170 in the microwave and rinsed the grains. This got me up to 1.25-1.3 gallons pre boil.

    I took my preboil reading with a refractometer. No bubbles, blew on it to cool off.

    After a 60 minute boil, the volume in my kettle was at 1 gallon. I cooled it off in a water bath down to about 85 (no ice so I couldn't get it a whole lot cooler). Then, took my gravity reading, 1.040.

    Writing that, the only glaring thing I see is still that maybe the grind sucks? I don't know!
     
    #16 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you weigh your grains?
    What's your water profile?
    How big was the hop bag?
    How fine was the mesh? Can you link to a pic?
    What was your post boil refractometer reading on the refractometer's BRIX scale?
    How did you determine the post-boil volume?
     
    #17 VikeMan, May 23, 2015
  18. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    Do you stir the grains inside of the bag or drop the whole bag in the water at once?
     
    #18 CurtFromHershey, May 23, 2015
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  19. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Someone else will know better than me, but that is a lot of water relative to grain, this may be affecting your efficiency. I normally use 1.5qts/lb so I would have mashed with half the amount of water you did.
     
    #19 wspscott, May 23, 2015
  20. Fattymcphatty

    Fattymcphatty Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 Michigan

    The grains were purchased in the 1lb packs.

    Water is Kalamazoo, MI public water.

    No hop bag. At 4.5 grams of hops I didn't bother.

    The grain bag is pretty long...it's maybe like a 12"x26"? (Sorry no measuring tape handy). And superfine mesh. It's from LD Carlson if that helps.

    When adding the grain, I tied the bag as close to the top as possible so the grains would have room to move around. Then, I stirred the whole bag and got everything as saturated as possible.
     
    #20 Fattymcphatty, May 23, 2015
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