My Rye Wine Experience

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by SportsandJorts, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. SportsandJorts

    SportsandJorts Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 Virginia

    Hey Everyone just wanted to get a new thread going about rye wines to see if theres any more info since not many exist and haven't been posted in for years.

    So two weeks ago I brewed a Rye Wine. I've been wanting to do one since I started brewing and have found very little info or recipes.

    Here is my recipe:
    40% American Rye malt
    14% Light Munich
    14% Pilsen
    10% Golden Promise
    4% Special B
    8% Honey
    10% Rice Hulls

    Fermented with Irish ale yeast

    I used Chinook and Fuggles to around 50 IBU, split between bittering and flavor.
    Target OG of 1.095 (Hit 1.088)
    Target FG of 1.026 (Hit 1.020)
    Mash Temp of 158 F


    My mash went fairly smoothly. It was sticky and viscous but nothing that caused too many problems, and that was with out any rests. In the future I hope to try a rest to see how it works.

    I didn't quite hit my OG due to collecting too much wort and not boiling quite long enough. It had a fairly quick and explosive fermentation.

    After two weeks, this weekend, I racked it to a secondary where it should sit for months before bottling. It smells great, very spicy a good kick of chinook. very intense. The taste on the other hand is very powerful. It is full of spicy and almost astringent rye flavors. Also some pine and a good kick of bitterness. I am hoping to age it for months to hope the flavors mellow out and start to agree better. Otherwise I may consider aging it for a time on something (not sure what yet to try and balance flavors.)

    Thoughts? Questions? Experiences?
     
  2. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    High such a high OG, I would absolutely give that many months of aging. I also would not shy away from oak-aging. I would get a variety of chips/cubes/spirals sitting on different liquors and wines asap.

    You didn't mention your batch size, but I would consider splitting off a gallon here or there for different oak treatments. In terms of actual liquors to use, go wild. If you are experiencing spicy flavors, why not age some on chili peppers?
     
  3. SportsandJorts

    SportsandJorts Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 Virginia

    Yeah I am a fan of splitting batches of big beers for aging. But this one is just a gallon batch. So for this one I am really gonna have to feel it out and see how the taste is before I decide to do anything. I may pull off a few beers and rack the rest into a growler on some oak chips. I think soaking those in a red wine would add an interesting twist.
     
  4. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Seems like an odd mix of malts to me. Why the GP and Munich and Pils?
     
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  5. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    Yeah, agree with wspscott...just seem like a far too complex grain-bill. I have been guilty of similar.

    If you aren't adding anything to secondary, I would have just bottled after making certain fermentation had ceased. The beer won't age any better in the carboy, and bottles give you a little extra protection and require less monitoring.
     
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  6. SportsandJorts

    SportsandJorts Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 Virginia

    I used used the Munich to try and add some malt flavor that wasn't from the rye. The golden promise to add a little sweetness. The pils I figured would be the easiest way to help out with a nice clean wort, up the gravity and add the least possible that could be noticed in the beer.
     
  7. angrygrimace

    angrygrimace Initiate (0) Apr 11, 2011 California

    It seems like it is, but if you look at it, its 40% rye malt, 24% base malt, 15% Munich and a small percentage of crystal. Not saying that Pilsen and GP taste the same, but the difference in flavor of two pale base malts isn't huge enough that I'd expect a ton of clashing flavors. The rest of the bill is simple sugar and rice hulls which have little flavor. I'd be more concerned about the Rye being oily or slick at a percentage that high and I think 50 IBU is pretty low bitterness for 1.088. I would shoot for something like 70+ to balance the sweetness of that.

    But I can't imagine it would get worse with age and he seems to like it. But I agree, just bottle it up and let it age in the bottle. There's no practical benefit of long-term bulk aging vs. bottle aging.
     
  8. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    It wasn't that I think his grain-bill won't work, but that he could have gotten similar results without using a bunch of different grains.

    I would either have removed the pilsen and munich and replaced with GP, or removed the GP and pilsen and replaced with all munich.

    I'm sure it will turn out quite tasty.
     
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  9. SportsandJorts

    SportsandJorts Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 Virginia

    Thanks for the input. I will definitely play around with the recipe a bit and find what works the best. As for the bitterness, mine would be higher than 50 because I threw in a little extra chinook and there is a noticeable bitterness to it. I may bottle it soon depending when I decide to clean the bottles, but no rush since it will be aging for quite some time.
     
  10. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Its personal preference, but when I do rye beers (rye barleywines, rye IPA, Imperial red w/ rye) I tend to bitter them lower than the corresponding beers lacking rye. For whatever reason, rye seems to really enhance the perceived bitterness.

    That being said, it really depends how the beer ages out. If you're planning on keeping this around for the long haul, when the bitterness starts to fade with age, you may find that you need to up the bitterness in the recipe to compensate...
     
  11. SportsandJorts

    SportsandJorts Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 Virginia

    I just did a imperial red rye too, but that recipe need more rye and hops next time. How much rye have you gotten up to in your barleywines? and what kind of gravities?
     
  12. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    40%, 1.100-1.115 OG, ~1.025-35 FG (Higher FG rye barleywines were better beers)
     
  13. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    its not that they taste different (though GP and pils are a world apart + munich is a base malt), its the fact that when you mix sooo many different malts none of them tend to shine and instead they start to compete with one another leaving a muddled flavor that doesnt show anything off very well
     
  14. SportsandJorts

    SportsandJorts Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 Virginia

    Generally I agree with that but with 40% rye I don't expect much of these malts to really be a key factor in the taste. They are their to increase gravities assist in keeping the wort less viscous and lighten up the mouthfeel
     
  15. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    well we will have to disagree, I would challenge you to rebrew this beer with a simplified grainbill and do a blind taste test

    each flavor will be there, but none enough to poke through, even at 40% rye the majority of the grain bill is coming from somewhere else, and so are the flavors

    KISS is the best strategy for malt bills, too many people try to over think things and believe they will get "complexity" or subtle nuances in flavor from 15 different malts in a beer, but it just muddies everything up. Im not saying your beer will be bad, what i am saying is that i believe it could have been better if it was a simpler recipe
     
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  16. SportsandJorts

    SportsandJorts Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 Virginia

    Well when you say it that way you just make me look inexperienced and bad with recipes. But I don't have a problem with that.

    I am going to rebrew this one, but it's not because you challenged me. It's because I already know this recipe can be improved. And when I do I am sure the number of grains will only decrease. That being said this was just a rough run of the recipe. I brewed a gallon to save on ingredients and time, but still get good feedback on what works and what doesn't. If you want to stick around for the results of that it will be years because it will be months to a year before I even decide to redo it.

    If I did cut done on the malts what do you suggest going with? Now I am leaning towards cutting gp and Munich and using Pilsen and color malts
     
  17. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    Meh - I wouldn't sweat it. When you factor in all the other variables that affect taste (yeast strain, hops, fermentation temps, yeast health, etc) I suspect changing around some of your non-base malts wouldn't change too much anyway.

    Plus, it's not like getting your marginally complex malt bill required some huge outlay in time or effort.

    If this was a beer I was brewing on a weekly basis and trying to nail down for commercial reasons, I'd advocate tinkering with the malt bill more. Otherwise, no worries.
     
  18. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    If you are going to update the recipe, how about a couple more small batches? Do one with just GP and Rye and one with just Munich and Rye. I don't see the Pils working as well as the other two, but it would not hurt to try :slight_smile:
     
  19. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    It wasnt to make you look inexperience, lot of people with years of brewing still have issues with using too many malts in their recipes. IMO you never get better in the things you do if someone doesnt challenge your status quo

    As for the malt choice in a simplified recipe, I think it depends on your goal. If you want a more american hop/malt profile with the rye, I'd go for rye + pils, if you want it more bready and rich, I'd use the GP or MO. My personal preference would be to use rye + MO and a little bit of sugar (honey is great), Ive done something very similar on a smaller scale (1055 og) and it came out beautifully
     
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