NE style IPA questions

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Alteredstate, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. wasatchback

    wasatchback Aspirant (283) Jan 12, 2014 Utah

    I don’t think anyone has yet found the correct ratio of the different yeasts TH uses. Personally I don’t even think they copitch them. The alternate yeasts as used in such small percentages. I’ve done four different mixes with vary results.

    25% T-58 fermented cold was straight pepper/phenol

    1g of WB-06 along with 14g S-04 was very clove/phenolic

    I’ve added WB-06 towards the end with minimal results.

    Got a batch now that is .85g T-58 and 11.5g if S-04 that is not showing any signs of phenols but it is just a few days into final DH addition. It was fermented at 66 ambient so warmer than my previous temp controlled versions.

    I have another alternate use for the WB-06 that I’m excited to try.

    Once you use these yeasts you can smell/taste them very slightly in the TH beers. It’s nuts.
    The-Adjunct-Hippie likes this.
  2. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    All with the same grainbill, I take it? Mind sharing that?

    That's pretty cool.
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  3. wasatchback

    wasatchback Aspirant (283) Jan 12, 2014 Utah

    Similar grain bills but not all exact. All roughly 6.4-6.8%.

    Rahr 2-Row
    10-15% Carafoam
    2% C40

    I used Malted Oats in one and I think split the Carafoam into 50% Carahell/50% Carafoam in another.

    I’ve started splitting the 2-row with GP lately which I like a little better.

    This is all based on Nate’s “advice” or input on Twitter, grain sacks in the Brewery etc. the Rahr 2-Row is just a guess as to what’s in the Silo but from everything I’ve read it’s a favorite for protein content and extract. Pretty sure it’s what HF uses as their base malt.

    Honestly the yeast combos were so far off it really didn’t matter what the grain bill was. The most recent with less than the 10% T-58 has the slight bubble gum aroma but it still has a ways to go, no signs of phenols which were very obvious in the other batches right away.

    You can make beers hazy as hell if you want with no flakes grains. Supposedly Nate says no flakes adjuncts or wheat in any of their beers. If he’s not pulling our chain I could see Malted Oats in everything sound of 7%.
    #43 wasatchback, Nov 9, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
    Curmudgeon likes this.
  4. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I take it you are trying to clone TH beers, because those grainbills are pretty high in ferulic acid, which may be a reason that you are getting the phenols (probably 4VG) that you're getting.
    Prep8611 and TooHopTooHandle like this.
  5. d3kalb

    d3kalb Initiate (87) May 3, 2012 California

    What are your most recent thoughts on WB-06 and how to use it? I did a staggered yeast addition to a 85% 50/50 GP/2-row 15% carafoam IPA using what I read on Trinity Brewers website and from the Homebrewtalk thread and got a very phenolic, thin beer (probably similar to your second attempt mentioned above?). WB-06 wouldn't stop fermenting so much so that I had very little residual sweetness that I wanted and often got from 1318 (which I'm trying to wean off of).

    Also, I'm having a major issue getting the yeast to drop out of suspension, which is leaving a bitter, yeasty bite. I had a heavy yeast cake in the bottom of my conical, but even after a week of having my beer kegged I still have tons of yeast in suspension. If I pour a glass and let it sit for a few hours and gently pour it out, I have a yeast cake on the bottom of the glass. Maybe didn't cold crash prior to transfer long enough?
  6. wasatchback

    wasatchback Aspirant (283) Jan 12, 2014 Utah

    What part of that grain bill is high in Ferulic acid? I highly doubt that grain bill would make a significant difference in ferulic acid production and I’m not doing a rest for it. From info I’ve gathered from white Labs even a small amount of POF+ yeast can produce a dominating characteristic. Personally I don’t think they’re using WB-06 in primary fermentation but during another part of the process.
  7. wasatchback

    wasatchback Aspirant (283) Jan 12, 2014 Utah

    Yeah I haven’t been using it anymore. I recently tried adding it with a small dose of enzymes to a beer that finished a little high. Not sure if it was the attenuation of the yeast or predominately the enzyme that got me another 6 points but I didn’t get any phenols. Unfortunately that batch also involved a crazy water profile experiment that didn’t pan out so I dumped it after a week in a keg.
  8. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Aspirant (254) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I wish someone figured it out by now!? What temp are most fermenting the s04?
  9. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Where do you think ferulic acid comes from? All of the grains that you used are high in ferulic acid.

    This is very true, because phenolic character is based on the amount of precursors in solution and the power of the enzymes of the yeast and not on cell count.
  10. wasatchback

    wasatchback Aspirant (283) Jan 12, 2014 Utah

    What grains aren't high in ferulic acid then? Why would my grain bill be any different than any others? It's in all Barley, you'd have to do an acid rest to bring it out and ideally have a high mash PH, neither of those would I do for this type of beer.
  11. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (733) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    On another yeast blending note, I just made starters of WY 2002 and 2308...and don't know which is which...guess I'll blend them and make another batch next week with the cake.
  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Wheat is lower in ferulic acid than barley.

    You don't have to do a ferulic acid rest to have ferulic acid in your wort. A rest will simply allow for more of it to be present.
    #52 EvenMoreJesus, Nov 9, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  13. Kamikazehops

    Kamikazehops Initiate (35) Feb 23, 2018 Texas

    Dead thread I know but was doing some research on my yeast for my NEIPA. Have I pack of London fog ale and the OG is 1.067. Which seems to be too high w/o a starter. Was thinking of adding dry US 04 along with the liquid yeast at pitch. Any suggestions? I have US 05 as well but from what I’ve read it’s not particularly the best yeast for this style.
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,761) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    If you were to solely brew using liquid yeast (White Labs London Fog Ale) you should indeed make a starter for an 1.067 OG beer.

    In my opinion there is sufficient yeast cells in the sacket of Fermentis S-04 yeast to properly ferment a 1.067 ale. I used one sacket of S-04 to brew a batch of 'NEIPA' and that beer turned out great.

    You could combine the two if you prefer but I would suggest that you only need the sacket of S-04.


    Edit: I prefer to re-hydrate my dry yeast prior to pitching.
    Kamikazehops likes this.
  15. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (100) Jan 10, 2018 California

    I just used London Fog for the first time.

    I pitched two packs a month or so old into a 1060ish beer. Fast ferment and dropped out quick. Low attenuation. 71% I think. Good yeast for the style but not as good as 1318 IMO.

    Hope that helps.
    Kamikazehops likes this.
  16. InkastareBrewingCompany

    InkastareBrewingCompany Initiate (31) Mar 13, 2018 Wisconsin

    Has anyone used any Munich malt in their NEIPA grain bill?

    I love the color of it, so was thinking of using 20-30% in my next batch.
  17. MrOH

    MrOH Champion (863) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    @EvenMoreJesus has plenty of opinions on this.
  18. Kamikazehops

    Kamikazehops Initiate (35) Feb 23, 2018 Texas

    Thanks! i went ahead and pitched the London fog and a pack of US 04.. ill see how it turns out. Usually use Omega Labs 200 Tropical strain. Ill update soon how it turns out. First dry hop was last night.
    NorCalKid likes this.
  19. invertalon

    invertalon Devotee (454) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio

    I have, but lower percentage of like 5-10%. Adds a bit more depth of the malt flavor and would prefer to use it over say, C10 or C20... But I'd still retrain a bit from making it too malty with 20-30%. That is just me, though!
  20. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (185) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    I’ve used it too. I use a 9L at less than 10% and like the color and little sweetness it brings to the table. I know for certain that Julius from Treehouse used to have a little in the grainbill too. It might still.
  21. Genuine

    Genuine Devotee (420) May 7, 2009 Connecticut

    I just watched a video of John Kimmich doing a Q&A a few years ago and he mentioned that he uses Thomas Faucett Pearl for Heady and found that to be very interesting. That's a malt that I don't hear a lot about in NEIPA's. I also thought it was interesting to see a lot of british malts and yeast can make amazing IPA's.
  22. wasatchback

    wasatchback Aspirant (283) Jan 12, 2014 Utah

    British yeast... yes

    British malts, less so

    The low protein content of most British malts isn’t that condusive for those trying to maintain haze stability.

    Good ol American 2 row with its high protein content is key. You don’t even need any flaked adjuncts or wheat or oats.

    A 20-30% portion of English malts adds complexity though.
  23. Bpatch50

    Bpatch50 Initiate (24) Mar 27, 2018 New York

    I'm not doubting you, but how do you know Munich was used in Julius? I was under the impression Nate doesn't like Munich in IPAs.

    Any other TH recipe info you care to share?
  24. chavinparty

    chavinparty Initiate (122) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    I use pearl as my base malt quite often. I haven’t had trouble with haze stability but a keg never makes it more than 3 to 4 weeks around here. I also prefer pearl and mo in 4-6%ers and prefer Canadian 2row in big ipas
  25. Jesse14

    Jesse14 Initiate (185) Jul 21, 2011 Massachusetts

    He mentioned it to me during the early Brimfield days. He stated that “just a touch for sweetness” was used. He was tight lipped about everything else. That’s why I mention that it might have changed since.