Hello, my first post in here! I recently decided to get into the kegerator owning world. Bought a slightly used Edgestar single tap kegerator. I've had 2 kegs tapped (Victory Prima Pils and a local brewery's hefeweizen), and I'm noticing that the kegs dont taste as "good" as expected. I know im being difficult by my vague description, but it's so hard to pin point. I dont notice an overly metallic or plastic like taste. At least I dont identify it as such. It's almost like the beer is missing a ton of flavor. Dont get me wrong, it's still to be enjoyed, but no where near what is expected. For example, the brewery where I bought my keg from is right down the street. I went to the brewery the same day i picked up my keg and the same beer on tap has such a deep banana and clove after-taste. Mine has none whatsoever aftertaste. And the prima pils also didnt seem to have as much flavor as expected. So I'm assuming it wasnt a bad batch or anything since both had the issue. Some details: Pours are great "foam" wise. Tried plenty of different pressure settings. Have tried temps ranging from 39 to 46 degrees. Took apart faucet and clean lines after purchase and after first keg. (flushing and soaking in BLC) Just last night, I realized that coupler needed to be cleaned (duh!) So I took it apart last night mid keg and cleaned it. Also removed check ball. It did smell fairly foul, but didnt add alot of difference. I have 5-6ft lines. I just ordered new beer lines (10 ft this time) just to be sure ,that are supposed to be good. But current lines seem clean and clear, so not sure if that will fix anything. What would result in lack of flavor? Dirtiness? Bad coupler possible (does seem to have some wear)? Sorry for the post length, but does any one have any other suggestions?!
Is the current beer line marked? If it isn’t actual beer line it could be the source of the issue and changing it out as you have said you are doing is the right thing. Actually anytime you buy something like this you should change all the wear items out. Are the faucet and coupler stainless or plated brass? If played and the playing has worn through, the brass could be imparting taste into the beer. Do you know the kegged on dates for the kegs you ran? Beer has a shelf life and just because you got it at the brewery doesn’t always mean it’s fresh.
Thanks so much for the response! The line says "Universal Plastics Inc Foxx Superflex PVC Tubing NSF-51. Max Temp .212F 3/16" ID X 7/16" OD". Does that give any insight? Also, Faucet IS plated brass. The keg has been lightly used by previous owner. Does that make a difference to wearing? Only asking because it's not an old kegerator or anything. Not sure about coupler. The beer was kegged the same day I picked it up. Watched them do it.
What if I pulled the pressure release valve on the regulator? I thought that's how I was too lower too much psi on my beer. Would that have "spoiled" the beer?
That is food grade line, but again well worth changing it. Pulling the relief let’s CO2 out, not air in, so that would not have spoiled it.
I have a chest freezer that I converted to a 4-keg home-brew serving setup. Here's my take. The CO2 in your case here is just used for "pushing" or serving the beer. Your kegs are already carbonated from the brewery so you're just applying enough CO2 to push the beer out of the keg if that makes sense to you. 11 psi should be perfect. Your lines are a little short at 5-6', ideally they are more in the 10-12' range but this is to slow the beer down (friction) as it leaves the keg and reduce foaming so if you're not having issues with that then it's really not a big deal. Anything the beer touches should be stainless steel or food grade plastic (the lines). You are right to take everything apart and clean it from the keg to the faucets. You should use an oxidizer like PBW, which is meant for cleaning brewing equipment. Then rinse in a sanitizer solution (weak) with something like StarSan (also for sanitizing brew equipment). Aside from all of your serving equipment being very clean and the CO2 pressure correct for serving (again, right around 11 give or take a few lbs), the only other thing that could be messing with your beer is bad seals and oxygen getting in the keg, though under pressure, you really should just be losing CO2, not gaining oxygen in the beer. Are you going through a lot of CO2 or something? 1 5lb tank of CO2 should serve at least 10 5 gallon kegs since you are not carbonating. There is some truth to the ability of oxygen to make its way into beer lines over time. Usually the first couple ounces of beer (line volume at 10' or so) is somewhat oxidized if the keg has been sitting for more than a few days. When I'm pouring from a keg I haven't poured from in at least a day I usually pour out 2 oz, then fill a proper pour. Last thing in your case is the kegs themselves. Were these fresh clean kegs from the brewery that you watched get filled, or other? If the kegs weren't sparkling clean before they were filled, that's the issue. Other than that, I don't really know, there's a lot of variables between drinking beer from your brewery's serving tank, and kegging off 5 gal of it then transporting and running it through another serving system. Kegerators can be a pain, but when you get them dialed they are brilliant. I had a very slow CO2 leak that I chased around for months that ended up just being a bad regulator, and resulted in me losing about 3 tanks of CO2 before found the culprit.
@Montanabeerz thanks for the help! I dont think im losing co2, only because I have gone through 2 5gallon kegs with it, and its still not out. Additionally, i feel like i wasted a lot of CO2 just messing with settings (releasing pressure release valve, etc). The oxygen getting in the beer idea intrigues me. But getting same symptoms with every pour of the kegs. And i always pour about an oz out after its been sitting. Just curious, for your co2 leak, did you just lose co2 fast or was the beer taste affected? Im hoping new beer lines may help. Otherwise Im back to square one. And youre right, maybe the kegs they were using were dirty. Meh!
No taste issue with CO2 leaks, you just lose your tank must faster than you would otherwise, but if the keg were to lose pressure, then yeah you can get oxygen intrusion to the keg and ruin the beer. Yeah, the beer line / oxygen intrusion issue really isn't too much of a big deal in any system and should only impact the beer that's actually sitting in the line, which in your case is only about an ounce, so it's probably not the issue. May just be off-kegs of it, if they filled right there for you on the spot, maybe they inadvertently used kegs that hadn't been cleaned, or did not purge the keg with CO2 first.......there's many possibilities. I'd definitely start with the new beer lines and another cleaning of your faucets and keg couplers. Make sure all the fittings are very tight. If your keg coupler/lines/faucets are all clean, you're not losing CO2, and are pushing the beer around 11 psi, it's not you. I agree with your idea to just replace the beer lines. They are cheap and require periodic replacement anyway so may as well eliminate that as a potential cause right away. You can buy about 100' of it for around $10 on Amazon. Another experiment you could do to isolate the faucets is just buy a cheap "picnic tap" that you can connect your beer line to rather than the faucet. If there's a difference between beer you serve through your faucet and the picnic tap, then there's something up inside your faucet. When you're chasing a problem in a system like this, the best way to go about finding it is isolating one element of the system at a time....... Or this is all just a goose chase and there's nothing wrong with your setup at all and you've just got a couple kegs that were filled poorly or weren't clean........ You'll get it eventually. Never give up!
Now is a good time to establish vols. The vols in your keg do not appear to be your problem here, but there is a bit of misinformation so now is as good a time as any. Let's. The correct applied CO2 pressure is very easy to figure. CO2 in a direct draw system does push the beer and it also maintains the correct amount of dissolved CO2 gas in the liquid. As the keg empties the head space increases. The void space will fill with gas until the pressure applied to the liquid is equal to the pressure pushing on the keg. So the beer will release dissolved gas into the head space. We must add the correct volume of gas to maintain that pressure, and maintain the dissolved CO2. If we do not the beer will lose dissolved CO2 to the headspace and the beer will go flat. That is all a regulator does, it adds gas until the pressure inside the keg is equal to the pressure against the regulator diaphragm. The amount of dissolved CO2 gas present in beer (or any liquid really) is referred to as the Vols, sometimes v/v. First you need to know the brewery Vols. This is the original amount of CO2 in the beer before the keg has been tapped. Do a search, call the brewery, ask the distributor and then give up because 90% of craft brewers don't really know themselves. Yes, they are selling a beer and are not quite sure of the vols. They can typically tell you the packaged pressure, but since that is temperature dependent it is not really helpful. Macro breweries btw always have the vols published. Always. So, make an assumption. 2.5 vols is a good number. The we refer to our handy chart. Right here. https://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table/ And we see a column for applied psi and a line for temp. Because the two are related. 38F is the ideal serving and storage temp (and don't argue this point. Live with it). Be sure the liquid is 38F, not the air temp in the kegerator. We see 38F, we see 2.48 vols and we see 11 psi. There you have it. Set your regulator to 11 psi. While we are at it, 1 foot of 3/16" Foxx Superflex choker has 2.0 psi of resistance. Every foot require 2 psi to force liquid through it, more or less. So 11 psi / 2.0 psi = 5.5 feet of line. In theory then 5.5' of choker will balance perfectly. But you want your pour to be a bit slower, and therefore 6 or even 7 feet is suitable. You can increase the velocity of the pour to get a nice head by lowering the glass and letting the last ounce or two hit hard. If you are a very busy bar a stadium then 3 feet of line will allow the beer to flow like a fire hose, and you can fill pints rapidly with a ton of foam, selling 12 ounces of actual beer for the price of a pint. Cheers.
@billandsuz Yup - 11 psi is a good serving pressure and length of line impacts foam in your beverage due to the velocity it leaves your faucet at. Agree! In regard to the OP, as long as the PSI is set anywhere between 11 and 15 or so on the system in question here, then all is well with that and it doesn't sound like the perceived issue with the taste of the beer is related to carbonation. You're correct that the carbonation in the beer will equilibrate to the pressure applied to the top of the beer from the void headspace in the keg above it, thus a range of about 11 - 15 psi for serving will push the beer fine and keep the beer in the keg carbonated fine as well in the typical ale range of about 2.2-2.5 volumes of CO2. If the OP has a couple hefe's on, maybe they'd want to push around 16psi to keep more vol's of CO2 dissolved in the beer for that style. If it's a couple imperial stouts, maybe you'd like it better at 11 for a lower carbonation level that most people prefer in that style. Sorry if that info was not clear in my post before, not trying to spread misinformation here, just keep things simple. Kegs from a brewery are full of fully carbonated beer and should have a headspace psi in that 11-15 psi range so that the beer does not lose its carbonation out of solution to equilibration of the headspace. CO2 in a home draft setup pushes the beer as well as maintains its carbonation. If you're trying to push beer at 2 psi, yes, your beer will go flat......but you could recarbonate it simply by raising the psi and letting enough time pass to allow the new pressure applied to the top of the surface of the beer to dissolve into solution and reach a new equilibrium. Anyway, hopefully more than enough good information here and I hope the OP is able to resolve their issue. Cheers fellas.
