Need help troubleshooting my latest batch

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Mikvan, May 29, 2020.

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  1. Mikvan

    Mikvan Initiate (0) Feb 18, 2020

    Hello folks

    I'm seeking advice. I'm a new brewer and so far I made three batches so far. The lastest batch turned unsuccesfull and I'm not really sure why... got some guesses but I'm not sure. I've lost the exact recipe but it was preatty much a standard wheat beer recipe.

    This one turned out good. Good color, great bubbles and taste
    https://imgur.com/Im4SEHG

    Wrong color, no bubbles and taste bitter and bad
    https://imgur.com/IY5uC1X

    I'm usual very strict when it comes to cleaning everything several times and using a disinfectant (starsans). What bugs me the most that some beers turned out good while others turned shit. This type of inconsistencies wreacks my begineer confidence and it worries me when it comes to sharing my beer with people I know.

    A wild guess is that the bottling of the beer could be the issue.. sometimes it's hard to get the bottle cap on correctly with the hand held tool. Could a bottle cap that is not sealed correctly introduce to much air and cause some issues?
     
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    A couple of possibilities come to mind.

    First, was this a liquid malt extract batch?

    If not, my guess would be oxidation. And yes, a loose bottle cap an certainly let in O2 and cause oxidation.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  3. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    When you bottle, how are you doing priming sugar and re-yeasting?

    To me it sounds like you have uneven mix of priming sugar and yeast. So, some bottles carbonate and yeast eat oxygen up to reduce oxidation while other remain flat and yeast is not able to scavenge oxygen.

    Try mixing your priming sugar into your beer better. I’d recommend dissolving your priming sugar into warm/hot filtered water then pouring that into bottling bucket then racking beer on top, mix well with sanitized stirring device, then bottle from there. This should give uniform priming to your bottles.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I may be wrong, but I read the OP as saying that the inconsistencies are from batch to batch, not bottle to bottle.
     
  5. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    You could be right. I was working off of when he said “What bugs me the most that some beers turned out good while others turned shit”.

    If it’s from bottle to bottle it is definitely packaging and I would wager the culprit is homogeneity of priming sugar at bottling.

    If it’s batch to batch only, need more info.
     
  6. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Sounds like you got a good seal on the first batch of bottles, and didn't seal well on the second batch, which would not only explain oxidation but also lack of carbonation. All the CO2 generated by the priming sugar just leaked through the crown and O2 creeped in.

    Really make sure you clean/sanitize the hell out of the bottles that didn't work out. Wing cappers definitely aren't the easiest thing to work with. And the bench cappers aren't much better. Certain bottles take more effort than others to get a good seal, and I've had a few that break during the act of capping as well. Also, not all bottles are created equal (in both quality and dimensions for a given volume/overall shape), and I'm readjusting my bench capper throughout the process (one thing about a wing capper that's easier if you're reusing bottles from commercial beers). Unfortunately, reusing bottles is touch and go and a learn as you go process.
     
  7. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Same recipe for all three batches?

    Are those two different beers/batches in the second pic, and are all three batches pictured among the two pics? The two in the second have different colors, so I presume they are different and represent the two bad batches?

    How long after bottling do the beers taste/look bad? Do they taste and look good before bottling?

    It sounds like you may have multiple issues here. One beer is too bitter, one is off color (and very hazy) and one lacks carbonation (the whole batch?).

    What are your bottling procedures (bottling bucket with a wand?), especially how well you mix the priming sugar into the beer?

    Besides some clarification from questions in the posts above, I think we also need a bit more narration about which beers in the pics have which problems.
     
    utahbeerdude likes this.
  8. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Not enough information to really diagnose. Here are some things I can think of, many of which I experienced as new brewer, that could be sources of your issues.

    Color differences are driven either by differences in ingredients (fresh vs. stale, intentional or unintentional differences in grain selection) or differences in staling due to process differences the introduce O2 or differential staling of the ingredients themselves. Staling in extract is commonly recognized to lead to darker beers, with LME allegedly being more vulnerable than DME.

    Differences in head are going to be driven by differences in carbonation or bubble retention. Bubbles are complicated and I am skipping over bubble retention. Carbonation is much easier -- the "ingredients" for developing carbonation in bottle are sugar, yeast, time, and a good crown seal (to retain the CO2).
    • Bad seal:To be honest, I don't think I have ever had carbonation issues due to a bad seal. In any event, it would be bottle to bottle inconsistency, not batch to batch.
    • Time is simply a matter of waiting long enough until the bottles. It will depend on the sugar amount and the amount of live, active yeast that are present. Lack of patience may lead to premature conclusions of under-carbonation.
    • Yeast. I suspect the amount of yeast suspended in solution of a recently fermented batch is rarely a problem in moderate gravity batches; yeast may have a tougher time working in higher alcohol environments, so high gravity batches may take longer to carbonate due to reduce yeast activity. In any event, they'll usually get the job done if you are patient.
    • Sugar - differences in the amount of sugar added per volume of beer can make a big difference in carbonation. Use of a measured volume, like 3/4 cup sugar, is imprecise. and will lead to batch to batch inconsistency. The best place to start with determining the mass of sugar you need is to use a priming calculator. Here's an example. Resist the temptation to try the various sugars listed there until you dial in consistency with something simple, like corn sugar or table sugar. Note that the priming calculator tries to incorporate residual CO2 in your beer from the primary fermentation, another source of variation, potentially. Dissolution of sugar into your bottling is important, but will create differences from bottle to bottle.
    You didn't mention issues of gushing levels of carbonation. When that happens ask me about bottle infections.
     
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  9. Mikvan

    Mikvan Initiate (0) Feb 18, 2020

    I did not use malt extract but it was pre-grinded malt
     
  10. Mikvan

    Mikvan Initiate (0) Feb 18, 2020

    If I recall correctly I'm heat up the sugar with a tiny bit of water and then pure (cold) into the fermentation bucket then I stirr it around a couple of times. Then it's time to transfer the beer into the bottles. The thought processes behind it that I get a "even mix" in the fermentation bucket than I would if I would add sugar individually into every bottle
     
  11. Mikvan

    Mikvan Initiate (0) Feb 18, 2020

    Sorry for the miscommunication english is not my native language. This is the first time I encountered this problem.. so it was inconsistencies from bottle to bottle. We can say that approx every sixth bottle turned out goood.
     
  12. Mikvan

    Mikvan Initiate (0) Feb 18, 2020

    The process of caping bottles is a rough process for me. I bought around 30 bottles from a reseller of brewing goods and those bottles have been reused for a sum of total of 3 batches of beer.
     
  13. Mikvan

    Mikvan Initiate (0) Feb 18, 2020


    Thank you for the input ( and all who have been posting). Those two pictures are from the same batch. Tho the picture with the bad beer was from my last 10 bottles which I stored in a dark walk in closet at least for 6 weeks.

    The bottling process is done with this tool :https://shop.humle.se/utrustning/flasktappning/kapsylerare/kelly-kapsylerare-handhallen
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That is not the standard method for bottling. What you should do is transfer (siphon) the beer from the primary into a second bucket (i.e., bottling bucket). Add the sugar/water solution to the bottom of the bottling bucket and gently siphon the beer (i.e., make sure the plastic tubing reaches the bottom of the bottling bucket so no splashing occurs). Once the beer has been transferred very gently stir the beer to ensure that the sugar/water solution is completely mixed into the beer.

    The reason you are getting inconsistent carbonation with your method is because of incomplete mixing.

    I mention the word "gently" above because you do not want to add air (oxygen) into your beer - do not splash! The introduction of oxygen will cause oxidation of the beer.

    Cheers!
     
  15. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    All this...
    what mixing the sugar solution into your fermentation bucket does is mix all the stuff from the bottom back up into the beer - that'smost likely why the color is so much darker and the beer is hazier.

    Also, those bottles that you bought, are they screw-tops or pry off bottles? It's very difficult to get a good seal on screw tops. Reusing bottles in and of itself isn't usually an issue as long as you clean them well once emptied and stored well, then rinsed again and sanitizsed befor filling. I have bottles I've reused probably a dozen times. Never an issue - just have to take care when sealing and opening. I've never had a bottle bomb, but did lose a growler once that in looking back, I knew I shouldn't have bottled into (I used to fill a couple growlers along with bottles, but I stopped that a long time ago.)
     
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  16. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    You're doing better than a lot of native English speakers on the internet.
     
  17. pants678

    pants678 Maven (1,374) Jan 26, 2009 California
    Trader

    I transfer before adding priming solution because my bottling bucket is on a scale. That's how I know how much sugar water I need to carb up. That a problem?
     
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    As long as you can get the sugar solution evenly mixed with the beer without (extra) agitation, you won't have lost anything by adding it after racking.
     
    pants678 likes this.
  19. Jasonja1474

    Jasonja1474 Savant (1,100) Oct 15, 2018 Tennessee
    Trader

    @pants678 I once read on here to use sugar cubes/ dosing each bottle with some before bottling and I tried and have use this method since. I have found that I like my brown ales with a cube and a half better than just one cube. Probably over carbed for most but it’s what I like. Maybe this could be something you try. Plus no need to open up the fermentor to rack to bottling bucket.
     
  20. pants678

    pants678 Maven (1,374) Jan 26, 2009 California
    Trader

    @Jasonja1474
    I've heard of this but would rather carbonate with some degree of accuracy to style (fewer volumes for a stout, more volumes for a saison). When you say over carbed, you're not getting gushing bottles right?
     
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