I'm having a little trouble figuring out my HCO3 and Mg from my water report. Here it is: http://fkaa.com/Drinking Water Standards 2014.pdf Mg is not on there at all. If I subtracted Ca (82) from Total Hardness (99), would that give me the Mg(17)? There is a number for alkalinity (38) and I had been multiplying that by 1.22, but I'm not sure that is correct. Does this report even have the necessary info to figure out those two values?
Your "total hardness" appears to be your HCO3 value. "Calcium Hardness" appears to be the CaCO3. When you multiply the CaCO3 x 1.22 you get 100...so very close to the total hardness figure they give of 99. I have not seen it presented that way before...but I haven't seen THAT many water reports either. As far as I'm aware, you cannot figure out your Magnesium value if it's not reported.
Haven't looked at your report, but if the total hardness is expressed as CaCO3, then... Total Hardness as CaCO3 = 2.5(Ca) + 4.1(Mg), so... 4.1(Mg) = (Total Hardness as CaCO3) - 2.5(Ca) Mg = (Total Hardness as CaCO3)/4.1 - 0.61(Ca) (all units in ppm)
I guess the Total Hardness is not CaCO3 because that would give me a negative Mg figure. @JohnSnowNW If Calcium Hardness is my HCO3, then how do I determine my Ca? Should I bring @utahbeerdude into this? Thank you both for the help.
To convert between an amount of anything expressed as HCO3 and the same anything expressed as CaCO3... "as HCO3" = 1.22 * "as CaCO3" or "as CaCO3" = "as HCO3" / 1.22 So if you convert to hardness "as CaCO3" you can then use this formula to infer the Mg level... Mg = (Total Hardness as CaCO3)/4.1 - 0.61(Ca)
The problem with your last equation is that there are two variables. The report lists Calcium Hardness, and I (incorrectly, it seems) thought this was just plain Calcium. It also lists Total Hardness and Alkalinity, but does not say as what for any of them. So if johnsnow is correct that Calcium Hardness is actually HCO3, then I don't know my Calcium or my Magnesium values. Take a look at the report when you have a chance. I'm obviously out of my element here (no pun intended, but why not). If you guys are stuck, let me know what to ask the aqueduct authority and I'll email them.
I just looked at your report. I can't make sense of it. Unless maybe the "Calcium Hardness" itself means Calcium "as CaCO3" or Calcium "as HCO3." Or the Total Hardness listed really is the sum of Calcium ppm Mg ppm, "as is." But I've never seen any of these things done that way in a water report. Basically, Here's what you need... Ca ppm Mg ppm Na ppm Cl ppm SO4 ppm Alkalinity as HCO3 or Alkalinity as CaCO3
Thanks for confirming for me that it's not what I need for brewing purposes. I'll ask directly for Ca, Mg and what the alkalinity listed is in. The other three are on there.
I've looked at the report. Here is my best guess as to what the ion content is. All values are ppm of each ion. Ca 32.8 (see below) Mg 4.1 (see below) Na 18.3 (as reported) Cl 44.7 (as reported) SO4 49.6 (as reported) HCO3 39.1 (derived from alkalinity and pH) CO3 3.6 (derived from alkalinity and pH) NO3 14.7 (derived from as N value in report) To get Ca and Mg I essentially did the calculation @VikeMan outlined, with the interpretation that both total hardness and Ca hardness are reported "as CaCO3". The ion balance isn't great (-0.52 mEq/L), but is not atypical for a water report. Unreported K could make up some of this difference. While related, alkalinity and hardness are not the same thing. Hardness is essentially the sum of Ca and Mg concentrations (in mg/L) but reported "as CaCO3", which means as if all the hardness came from CaCO3. I'm pretty sure this is done because whatever titration is used to determine hardness is insensitive to whether it arises from Ca or Mg. Our more simply, hardness is related to the concentration of divalent metal ions in the water. Alkalinity, on the other hand is a measure of the charge concentration (in mEq/L) associated with HCO3 and CO3. It is also commonly reported "as CaCO3" but this measure is only obliquely related to the "as CaCO3" hardness value. EDIT: The key quantity as far as alkalinity goes is the total alkalinity, as both HCO3 and CO3 must be neutralized to bring the pH down to typical mash values. When the pH is less than about 8.0, the fraction of the alkalinity that comes from CO3 is negligible, but for higher pHs, as in this case, there is appreciable CO3, and so it should not be neglected.
Thanks for your input and validating some of my data. I get my water from the same pipe as @KeyWestGator , only 100 miles earlier. From a Brun water report in late 2013 my figures are within 1 or 2% of what you calculated above (for unknown reasons Brun showed SO4 as 17 versus the reported 49.6). Now, if we only knew how it varied seasonally . . .
I don't use Bru'nWater, but that ratio looks familiar. Some water reports show SO4 as "SO4 as S" or "SO4-S" When they do, you have to multiply the reported number by three before entering as SO4 in the water sheets.
Amen, to that. That's the problem with understanding water treatment, unless you already understand everything it's difficult to sort through. I'm sure the author of the report has complete understanding of what he meant to say, but it doesn't translate well. This is the type stuff that no one is born knowing. I've read Palmer's Water twice and pretty sure he doesn't touch on any of this. Yet the language of water is such that it's difficult to get there from here (unless you've already been there). Example: The guy who does the Brun water report expects you to know that what he calls sulfate is really SO4-S and should be multiplied by three to give you the real sulfate. When is CaCO3 a measure of alkalinity or hardness value (obliquely or otherwise)? CO3 isn't even addressed in Water, so I've been ignoring when maybe I should be neutralizing it. This isn't a dig on any Forum members, your inputs shed light on the road. Maybe a dig on Palmer because in 296 pages he really doesn't ever tell you how to treat water for brewing. Ironically, @KeyWestGator and myself are surrounded by water . . . I'm finding it difficult to wade my way through it all. And yes, venting does help (especially if Palmer is lurking).
